Who I am and what I am looking for...

[dskysmine]

The spectrum of which I am speaking has to do with differences in application of the Truth, not disagreement about Truth itself. Truth comes from God--God IS Truth--and God has revealed Himself to men in his word, the Bible. All stripes of every kind of Baptist, both mainline and independent, believe this. The Bible transcends time and culture. It is full of general principles as well as specific commands; it doesn't "spell out" every single response to every single issue in every single culture. It is up to the reader to apply the principles from the Bible to his own particular situation in time and space and culture. For example, the Bible says that Christian women should dress "modestly." Different people in various times and cultures have applied that principle differently, while still obeying it. God has given us his Spirit to guide us into wisdom and discernment in these areas.

So, yes, there is Truth which has been revealed to us, and we agree about what that Truth is, but we might differ in our applications of that Truth in our own lives. For example, some ladies might think that wearing slacks/pants is immodest because too much of the female form is revealed; so, they would think of pants as "immodest" clothing. (This was certainly true of most women around the world before the 20th century.) Others disagree; they do not believe that, given our culture today, pants are immodest on women. So, they would wear pants. Women on both sides of the issue are taking the principle given by Truth (that women should be modest) and using their best judgment to decide how to apply it. Both sets of women are obeying Scripture the best they know how. Make sense?

First of all thank you for your explanation but unless I am being a little obtuse it seems to me that it is not so much of as using pants as it is to actually
displaying your body in an disrespectful manner to the Sacredness of one's own body (1 Corinthians 6:19) that the matter does seem to arise to other people. I don't know if I am allowed to put links to pictures or not but for the sake of explaining my point of view we can simply imagine some sweatpants vs a plunging neckline night gown to see that the second is far more "immodest" than the first.
But I think that goes beyond the point... I don't think that aesthetics have to do with morality in regards to what I meant. If you describe a spectrum of "truths" it makes it seem like you are talking about morality... which is clearly not the case (I assume).
Maybe I understood incorrectly and you could put it into a different context?
Thank you!

1-Sure you're learning already (someone else mentioned we've had a couple of antagonists here recently and some of us are gun shy...me included however that's no excuse for not apologizing).

2-We don't believe we are the only ones going to heaven. Anyone who believes they are saved by grace through Jesus' shed blood on Calvary will be in heaven.

3-I could give you the long version on the KJB but for now...it is the preserved word of God for English speaking people for doctrines and practice of faith.

4-Disclosure doesn't hurt me or anyone, it doesn't hurt you either. When I speak with someone about faith I like to know some background. Is there anything besides some of my bad manners you would like to know about me?

5-No everyone doesn't have to debate, you can learn and when you see something that causes you to, ask why someone made a certain statement, ask about it.

6-No, I would not teach an atheist this way.

I'll apologize now and sincerely, I see you are offended. I hope you accept the apology.

I noticed you have some doubt about knowing if you are saved or not. I have a couple verses to share. Notice where the verse below says, "know that ye have eternal life."

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Thank you for your honesty first of all.
1-I do apologize for not understanding where you were coming from, it's just because I already was hurt so many times living in this country (Germany) that I created a sort of barrier between me and people in order to protect myself whenever I feel uncomfortable.
2-This is important. I don't think it ever is stressed enough. Thank you.
3-I read some things in the articles of the site that "Jerry80871892" showed me that talked about the KJV being the only inspired version although it seems to be quite a statement to profess. I for example am not in an English speaking country, which (although you didn't say it outright) would put me and several other people outside of the possibility to know God's Word and Salvation... and this would go against what I assume is God's infinite mercy towards all of His children.
4-I did not intend to hurt you through my questions, but only to understand you better also because I want to understand my girlfriend better and what is behind her story. We have spoken a lot about her upbringing and our faith but I felt like I needed someone that I was not infatuated to, to help me see things a little more clearly. That is the primary reason why I am here. Although I have dealt with Baptists before knowing her we usually never hang in the same places or with the same "crowds", so it is quite a new experience to live in a Theological seminar here in Berlin, in the middle of so many young Pastors that are Baptists. As for you, please do share what you feel you would like to share as I am eager to learn.
5-I will be sure to do it, thanks.
6-Well, thankfully I am not an atheist =)

I do accept your apology, and be sure that I did not take it too personally. As I said before I already had several occasions where instead of learning about religion the situation progresses into accusations, lies and pain.

Thank you very much for sharing those verses with me. Although I do struggle with the certainty of Salvation it is not because of my lack of Faith, but because of the sins that turn me away from God every day, and that I must struggle against to stay in His Light.

One in Christ,
D

[swathdiver]

Both me and my girlfriend were born and raised in different denominations, from her side I can say that she discovered her personal relationship with Jesus around 20 years old, when she got baptized after a struggle discovering what God meant to her and how she wanted to make Him the Lord about her life. (might be paraphrasing a little)
In my case it was a little bit different as I don't have such a clear cut defining moment and have always believed in Jesus as a close Saviour that always protected me growing up.

Can you clarify something for me? How does a person get to heaven?

[dskysmine]

Can you clarify something for me? How does a person get to heaven?

I could choose from a multitude of Passages....
Mark 10: 17-25
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? 18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. 20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. 21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
One in Christ,
D Edited March 13, 2012 by dskysmine

[Annie]

First of all thank you for your explanation but unless I am being a little obtuse it seems to me that it is not so much of as using pants as it is to actually
displaying your body in an disrespectful manner to the Sacredness of one's own body (1 Corinthians 6:19) that the matter does seem to arise to other people. I don't know if I am allowed to put links to pictures or not but for the sake of explaining my point of view we can simply imagine some sweatpants vs a plunging neckline night gown to see that the second is far more "immodest" than the first.
But I think that goes beyond the point... I don't think that aesthetics have to do with morality in regards to what I meant. If you describe a spectrum of "truths" it makes it seem like you are talking about morality... which is clearly not the case (I assume).
Maybe I understood incorrectly and you could put it into a different context?
Thank you!

No, I think you understand. I'm not putting morality on a "spectrum." I am saying that morality is clearly defined in Scripture, and that, depending on one's culture, or one's background, one Christian might apply that morality differently than another.

Let me encourage you with just one more thought, if I may. (This thought is in response to something you wrote earlier.) When Christ died on the cross for our sins, He paid for them in full, all at once. When we believe in him for salvation, we are accepting His grace, which is a free gift. We do not have to work for our salvation; Jesus finished the work on the cross when He paid for all of our sins. Our sins are forgiven, and cannot keep us away from God ever again. When we do sin, we are disappointed in ourselves, confess our sins, and claim God's forgiveness for those sins through Christ, but when God looks at us, He sees only Christ's righteousness which has been imputed to us. He does not see our sin as something that separates us from Him. This thought is so encouraging to me every day. I don't have to live in fear of what God thinks about me; His mercy and grace have taken care of my sin. I can live joyfully and confidently, knowing for sure that I will one day go to live with Him in heaven because of Christ's finished work on the cross. Edited March 13, 2012 by Annie

[Annie]

No.

So, John, you do not agree that two different Christians, both acting prayerfully and in good conscience, will ever apply a Scriptural principle differently from one another? You believe that every action is spelled out in Scripture? You believe that when two Christians honestly disagree on a matter of application, at least one of them is living in disobedience to God?

[dskysmine]

No, I think you understand. I'm not putting morality on a "spectrum." I am saying that morality is clearly defined in Scripture, and that, depending on one's culture, or one's background, one Christian might apply that morality differently than another.

Let me encourage you with just one more thought, if I may. (This thought is in response to something you wrote earlier.) When Christ died on the cross for our sins, He paid for them in full, all at once. When we believe in him for salvation, we are accepting His grace, which is a free gift. We do not have to work for our salvation; Jesus finished the work on the cross when He paid for all of our sins. Our sins are forgiven, and cannot keep us away from God ever again. When we do sin, we are disappointed in ourselves, confess our sins, and claim God's forgiveness for those sins through Christ, but when God looks at us, He sees only Christ's righteousness which has been imputed to us. He does not see our sin as something that separates us from Him. This thought is so encouraging to me every day. I don't have to live in fear of what God thinks about me; His mercy and grace have taken care of my sin. I can live joyfully and confidently, knowing for sure that I will one day go to live with Him in heaven because of Christ's finished work on the cross.

Hi Annie,
I don't know if you know but "sin" is not something I can shrug off that easily... Jesus can forgive sins, but I have to repent... and that means changing myself not to do them.
"But your sins have made a separation between you and your God," (Isaiah 59:2).
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23)
The only thing that allows me to live my life in some kind of peaceful state is my Faith because I am a big sinner and I feel it and think about it all the time. (Sometimes to the point of obssession)
My name actually means "The Lord shall be my Judge", so everytime somebody calls my name inside of me I tremble a little.
This of course is besides the point that we were making about the "spectrum". As I mentioned before there is a question of Morality and of Aesthetics that are different subjects in the real world.
For example I can say that if two churches differ in regards to lifting or not the arms when singing (or women wearing pants like before) is a matter of Aesthetics, while if two churches differ in regards to homosexuality it is a matter of Morality. That was my question all along... are "different" Baptist Churches "different" in matters of Aesthetics or Morality?
One in Christ,
D Edited March 13, 2012 by dskysmine

[John81]

With regards to the King James Bible, if you take note it was said the the KJB is the preserved word of God for English speaking people. That doesn't leave out non-English speaking folks, as there are Bibles in other languages which were translated from the same preserved line as was the KJB.

I know many who speak both German and English who use the German Luther Bible and the KJB.

[Annie]

Hi Annie,
I don't know if you know but "sin" is not something I can shrug off that easily... Jesus can forgive sins, but I have to repent... and that means changing myself not to do them.
"But your sins have made a separation between you and your God," (Isaiah 59:2).
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23)
The only thing that allows me to live my life in some kind of peaceful state is my Faith because I am a big sinner and I feel it and think about it all the time. (Sometimes to the point of obssession)
My name actually means "The Lord shall be my Judge", so everytime somebody calls my name inside of me I tremble a little.
This of course is besides the point that we were making about the "spectrum". As I mentioned before there is a question of Morality and of Aesthetics that are different subjects in the real world.
For example I can say that if two churches differ in regards to lifting or not the arms when singing (or women wearing pants like before) is a matter of Aesthetics, while if two churches differ in regards to homosexuality it is a matter of Morality. That was my question all along... are "different" Baptist Churches "different" in matters of Aesthetics or Morality?
One in Christ,
D

Ah, so your name is Daniel...That's my dad's name, and my son's middle name. It is indeed a sobering thought to consider that "God is my judge." In answer to your question about aestheics and morality, I would say that no Baptist church of which I am aware would condone homosexuality at all. (Perhaps some of the more liberal mainline churches would--I'm not sure about that.) On matters of morality, Baptist churches are pretty much in agreement. From what I can tell, most Baptist denominations are fairly conservative on these issues.

Daniel, I do not shrug off sin at all...Sin is an awful, weighty thing that cost my Savior his very life! But I do not live in dread of God's wrath; that would be denying the efficacy of Christ's sacrifice. It would be declaring his work on the cross ineffective to save me. It would be a form of pride to say that my sins are too great or too many for Christ to forgive. It would be embracing a "works-based" salvation to say that it is up to me to keep my heart continually clean before God in order to have eternal life. I can't do that. You can't do that. But Christ not only can do it; he did do it. It is done. It is finished. We do not have to live in fear. I John 5:13 says that we can know we have eternal life, not just hope we have eternal life.

I do agree with you about repenting. God's Holy Spirit who indwells all believers in Christ is gracious to draw us to repentance. We must continually be "changing our minds" about our sin, seeing it as God sees it, and confessing it to our forgiving Lord. However, we must also realize that Christ's sacrifice on the cross took care of those sins once for all those who have accepted that sacrifice by faith. As God the Father's children through Christ's atonement, we are not ever in danger of experiencing his eternal wrath. Edited March 13, 2012 by Annie

[John81]

It should be noted the name Baptist covers a very wide selection of churches and beliefs. They can range from downright worldly and liberal to solidly biblical.

Consider these differing Baptists:

http://allaboutbaptists.com/groups.html

[dskysmine]

With regards to the King James Bible, if you take note it was said the the KJB is the preserved word of God for English speaking people. That doesn't leave out non-English speaking folks, as there are Bibles in other languages which were translated from the same preserved line as was the KJB.

I know many who speak both German and English who use the German Luther Bible and the KJB.

Hi John81, actually I didn't meant exclusively to my country. I meant for all the others, especially considering that the KJV only appeared in the 17th Century, there were other translations before it that Christians all around the world used. What I find hard to believe is that this "line" exists. It sounds a lot like what the RCC teaches.

Ah, so your name is Daniel...That's my dad's name, and my son's middle name. It is indeed a sobering thought to consider that "God is my judge." In answer to your question about aestheics and morality, I would say that no Baptist church of which I am aware would condone homosexuality at all. (Perhaps some of the more liberal mainline churches would--I'm not sure about that.) On matters of morality, Baptist churches are pretty much in agreement. From what I can tell, most Baptist denominations are fairly conservative on these issues.

Daniel, I do not shrug off sin at all...Sin is an awful, weighty thing that cost my Savior his very life! But I do not live in dread of God's wrath; that would be denying the efficacy of Christ's sacrifice. It would be declaring his work on the cross ineffective to save me. It would be a form of pride to say that my sins are too great or too many for Christ to forgive. It would be embracing a "works-based" salvation to say that it is up to me to keep my heart continually clean before God in order to have eternal life. I can't do that. You can't do that. But Christ not only can do it; he did do it. It is done. It is finished. We do not have to live in fear. I John 5:13 says that we can know we have eternal life, not just hope we have eternal life.

I do agree with you about repenting. God's Holy Spirit who indwells all believers in Christ is gracious to draw us to repentance. We must continually be "changing our minds" about our sin, seeing it as God sees it, and confessing it to our forgiving Lord. However, we must also realize that Christ's sacrifice on the cross took care of those sins once for all those who have accepted that sacrifice by faith. As God the Father's children through Christ's atonement, we are not ever in danger of experiencing his eternal wrath.

You are correct Annie, my name is Daniel.
Although I mentioned homosexuality I could have used several other subjects which are more controversial, like the pill or abortion. What i understand from what you are telling me is that it is possible that Baptists do not agree on moral issues. Why is that?
I do not live in dread of God's wrath... I live in angst of getting away from His Light... which is why I struggle so much. What do you expect me to feel if after repenting and God tells me "Go and sin no more" I go and continue to sin? It makes me feel like my repentance was not true... not that He didn't cleanse me.
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousy, wrath, factions, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, reveling, and the like; of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they who do such things SHALL NOT INHERIT the kingdom of God" (Gal. 5:19).
"21 “Not everyone who says to Me, r‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who sdoes the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we tnot prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And uthen I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; vdepart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" Matthew 7:21-23.
"⁹Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
¹⁰Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." I Cor : 9-10
“But the fearful, and UNBELIEVING, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death” (Revelation 21:8).
I am a sinner... I need God's Grace constantly to avoid falling in sin and you think that I can "know" that I will inherit the Kingdom of God?

It should be noted the name Baptist covers a very wide selection of churches and beliefs. They can range from downright worldly and liberal to solidly biblical.

Consider these differing Baptists:

http://allaboutbapti...com/groups.html

So... what makes these churches more truthful than others?
Does this mean all of them are true?
What are the differences between these and the Independent Fundamental Baptists?

One in Christ,
D

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Hi John81, actually I didn't meant exclusively to my country. I meant for all the others, especially considering that the KJV only appeared in the 17th Century, there were other translations before it that Christians all around the world used. What I find hard to believe is that this "line" exists. It sounds a lot like what the RCC teaches.


You are correct Annie, my name is Daniel.
Although I mentioned homosexuality I could have used several other subjects which are more controversial, like the pill or abortion. What i understand from what you are telling me is that it is possible that Baptists do not agree on moral issues. Why is that?
I do not live in dread of God's wrath... I live in angst of getting away from His Light... which is why I struggle so much. What do you expect me to feel if after repenting and God tells me "Go and sin no more" I go and continue to sin? It makes me feel like my repentance was not true... not that He didn't cleanse me.
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousy, wrath, factions, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, reveling, and the like; of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they who do such things SHALL NOT INHERIT the kingdom of God" (Gal. 5:19).
"21 “Not everyone who says to Me, r‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who sdoes the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we tnot prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And uthen I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; vdepart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" Matthew 7:21-23.
"⁹Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
¹⁰Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." I Cor : 9-10
“But the fearful, and UNBELIEVING, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death” (Revelation 21:8).
I am a sinner... I need God's Grace constantly to avoid falling in sin and you think that I can "know" that I will inherit the Kingdom of God?



So... what makes these churches more truthful than others?
Does this mean all of them are true?
What are the differences between these and the Independent Fundamental Baptists?

One in Christ,
D

Something I think you're missing here can be illustrated by a true example I know:
In New York there is an IBC that teaches there are 21 ways of soul salvation including a woman bearing a child. Though this is a grievous heresy they cannot be forced to change their sign to remove "Independent" or "Baptist" for there is no IFB hierarchy nor IFB "denomination". There are some IB churches that have decided to fellowship with each other and/or fellowship exclusive from some others (that, however is an entirely different subject).

[dskysmine]

Something I think you're missing here can be illustrated by a true example I know:
In New York there is an IBC that teaches there are 21 ways of soul salvation including a woman bearing a child. Though this is a grievous heresy they cannot be forced to change their sign to remove "Independent" or "Baptist" for there is no IFB hierarchy nor IFB "denomination". There are some IB churches that have decided to fellowship with each other and/or fellowship exclusive from some others (that, however is an entirely different subject).

Are saying that there is no truthful Church?... but Jesus said:
^"15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
¹⁶But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
¹⁷And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."
Matthew 18:15-17
What Church was Christ talking about? What Church am I supposed to tell it? Or did He mean this only to the Early Christians?
One in Christ,
D

[Annie]

You are correct Annie, my name is Daniel.
Although I mentioned homosexuality I could have used several other subjects which are more controversial, like the pill or abortion. What i understand from what you are telling me is that it is possible that Baptists do not agree on moral issues. Why is that?

Which moral issues have I said that Baptists do not agree on?

I do not live in dread of God's wrath... I live in angst of getting away from His Light... which is why I struggle so much. What do you expect me to feel if after repenting and God tells me "Go and sin no more" I go and continue to sin? It makes me feel like my repentance was not true... not that He didn't cleanse me.

So, what you are saying is that you have confidence that you will spend eternity in heaven with God someday...that you do not dread his wrath. We all struggle with sin as long as we are on earth. But that sin has already been paid for. We do not have to pay for it; we will not be punished for it, because Christ took all that punishment on himself. He experienced God's wrath so that we do not have to do so.

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousy, wrath, factions, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, reveling, and the like; of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they who do such things SHALL NOT INHERIT the kingdom of God" (Gal. 5:19).

If you read this verse in context of the whole chapter (really, of the whole letter), you will see what I am talking about.

"21 “Not everyone who says to Me, r‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who sdoes the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we tnot prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And uthen I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; vdepart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" Matthew 7:21-23

Again, read this admonition in context of the whole of Scripture, Daniel. It is obvious that no one can obey God perfectly. If this was all we had to go on, we'd all be miserably doomed. Christ lived a sinless life on our behalf, and then died for our lawlessness, making it possible for sinners to enter his kingdom. I know we agree on this point.

Anyway, Christ's point here is merely that those who follow him "with their lips" and not with their heart are not really his children. If we love him, we will want to obey him. Will we do so perfectly? Not a chance of it. But our transgressions are done away with by his sacrifice.

"⁹Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
¹⁰Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." I Cor 6: 9-10

Did you read verse 11? It looks like you are just pulling verses right out of their proper context and using them to prove a point. I grew up in a family which did that (we believed that we could lose our salvation, and would pull out isolated verses to "prove it"). It is only when I began to view Scripture as a unified whole that I got past this sort of dabbling and doubting.

Daniel, I have enjoyed our interaction; thanks for the discussion. But I do need to step away from the computer and get some things done now. I hope you find what you are looking for here. My biggest desire for you is that you will have peace in your heart, and that you will trust in the finished work of Christ for eternal salvation, not depending on yourself but in faith believing that your sins, past, present, and future, have been taken care of by Christ's finished work on the cross. Edited March 13, 2012 by Annie

[swathdiver]

I could choose from a multitude of Passages....
Mark 10: 17-25...

I'm sorry, I'm even more confused now. I've only been a Christian for a short time. Can you tell me in your own words please? How will you get to heaven?

[Salyan]

What Church was Christ talking about? What Church am I supposed to tell it? Or did He mean this only to the Early Christians?

The church is the body of believers - the local church. One fellowship of born-again believers, meeting together in an organized fashion as God directed for worship and fellowship. There are many local churches - some have retained true doctrine, and some have allowed false doctrine to creep in. Some no longer teach the true gospel of Christ and should not properly be termed churches - but they retain the name. How do we know true doctrine? From the Bible.
In a larger sense, the 'true church' will contain everyone who has been born again by faith alone in Christ's atoning sacrifice. However, that church will not meet until we are all together in heaven. For right now, today, a true church - a good church! - will teach the true gospel and the whole counsel of God. You will not find a denomination or a label that will cover all good churches. Look instead for one good local church. Edited March 13, 2012 by salyan