Kentucky church bans interracial marriage

[John81]

Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Does that verse say the Ethiopian with Moses was black?

Until about 30-40 years ago the common perception and talk was that Americans were white. Does that mean all Americas were white back then? No. About 10% of the population was non-white.

If one in 1960 were to say can an American change their skin, most would immediately think of someone with white skin. Today, with vast demographic changes, such an question would receive different thoughts depending upon the audience.

Ethiopia has long been majority black, but there has long been a minority of other races as well. Simply saying someones nationality doesn't tell us their ethnic or racial heritage.

Egypt is another good example of this, and geographically close to Ethiopia.

[heartstrings]

Does that verse say the Ethiopian with Moses was black?

Until about 30-40 years ago the common perception and talk was that Americans were white. Does that mean all Americas were white back then? No. About 10% of the population was non-white.

If one in 1960 were to say can an American change their skin, most would immediately think of someone with white skin. Today, with vast demographic changes, such an question would receive different thoughts depending upon the audience.

Ethiopia has long been majority black, but there has long been a minority of other races as well. Simply saying someones nationality doesn't tell us their ethnic or racial heritage.

Egypt is another good example of this, and geographically close to Ethiopia.

Does it pain you to say she was his wife?

Can the majority Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Can the ethnic Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. Does you KJB read anything like this?

It makes NO distinction as to any" ethic" Ethiopian or any other variety, sir. The Bible simply testifies that If a person was an "ETHIOPIAN" there was something REMARKABLE about his "SKIN". Reckon what it was? Thicker? Scaley? Softer? Maybe it had freckles? Moses' WIFE; and the Bible says WIFE, not somebody he was "with". The Bible says he "Married an Ethiopian". She was Black, sir. I know that is hard for some to swallow but you just need to get your HEART right. Edited December 4, 2011 by heartstrings

[JerryNumbers]

Some seem to think its their business what goes on in a church they are not a member of. That is untrue. The only church business that is a church members business is what takes place in the church they are a member of. And if they are not a member of a church, them whatever goes on in any church is none of their business.

There is no universal church, you only have one church home.

Of course if the church you’re a member of is going to associated with another church you would want to know something about it, & you might find out something you disagree with, & it might be something that would stop you from associating with that church.

I might add, we all have flaws, none of us are sinless, & the Bible does tell us if we have doubts whether something is right or wrong, we should not do it, & if we do so, not in faith, its sin.

I never actually knew my father & mother, mother died in a house fire when in was about 1 & 1/2 years of age in late 1948. In the 90’s I found out much about my birth family, one thing that surprised me was my mothers mother was a full blood Indian. Her father was an officer in the war between the states. I figure they were not popular with many people during that time.

I don’t know, yet it seems, mixed marriages has never seemed to be popular with the majority of people. Yet all I can speak of is those people I have been around.

I know many black people, the majority of them oppose mixed marriages of any kind.

Of course, here in 2011 a few more white & black people are accepting of it, & accepting the marriages of other races.

I’ve got a black woman doctor at the VA. I like her, & we have mentioned different things & were able to speak about them in friendly manner. One was blacks marrying whites. She mentioned that her daughter had 2 very good white girl friends, & that they were at her house quite often, her daughter at their houses. That she would do anything for these girls. But she says, I do not want my daughter to marry a white woman. I don’t know about you, but I can respect that, without having any hateful thoughts towards her. Perhaps some of you could not, & I say that because of the expression some have made towards the other Bro. Smith over this matter.

[John81]

Does it pain you to say she was his wife?

Can the majority Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Can the ethnic Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. Does you KJB read anything like this?

It makes NO distinction as to any" ethic" Ethiopian or any other variety, sir. The Bible simply testifies that If a person was an "ETHIOPIAN" there was something REMARKABLE about his "SKIN". Reckon what it was? Thicker? Scaley? Softer? Maybe it had freckles? Moses' WIFE; and the Bible says WIFE, not somebody he was "with". The Bible says he "Married an Ethiopian". She was Black, sir. I know that is hard for some to swallow but you just need to get your HEART right.

Why would you even insinuate such a thing? Do issues where people disagree have to turn into personal matters? For myself, I'm discussing this on the matters at hand and not out of personal views.

The Scripture no more makes it clear the Ethiopian woman was black, or any other race, than does the mention of leviathan clearly say the creature was or wasn't what we would call a dinosaur. The other verses quoted with regards to the term Ethiopian have nothing to do with the Ethiopian woman in question. The simple fact is, we don't know what race the Ethiopian woman was and we don't know why Miriam opposed the marriage.

Beyond all that, none of this changes the fact that an independent church has the right to establish their own guidelines for matters not of doctrine. Those who wish to attend a church have the right to choose the church they wish to attend and reject those they don't.

[Anon]

Wow, you would not let a saved black man married to a saved white woman serve in your local church? REALLY? Who are you to tell two saved people who are married that they are not called of God to serve in a church?!?!

Anyway. The church rescinded the rule. See Fox News. (Some big conviction that was. ha.)

[John81]

Wow, you would not let a saved black man married to a saved white woman serve in your local church? REALLY? Who are you to tell two saved people who are married that they are not called of God to serve in a church?!?!

Anyway. The church rescinded the rule. See Fox News. (Some big conviction that was. ha.)

Who are you referring to when you say "you"?

[Anon]

Who are you referring to when you say "you"?

The one up there that said he wouldn't...um...Bro Smith, I think? Sorry, I was practicing lazy posting. :-)

[John81]

The one up there that said he wouldn't...um...Bro Smith, I think? Sorry, I was practicing lazy posting. :-)

Okay, thanks!

[Guest]

On doctrinal issues they were very specific. Is this a doctrinal issue? Does Scripture say anywhere that pastors/churches must accept interracial marriage or allow interracial couples to participate in special performances and such? Matters of who a pastor/church will marry, who they allow to perform before the congregation, what sort of events they allow, etc., are all matters where a pastor/church has liberty to decide for themselves. Membership requirements in a particular church are also established by each church.

The Kentucky church says they allow interracial couples to attend their church, they are only barred from giving special performances, being married by in that church, or being members of that church. In many other areas individual churches make similar decisions based upon whatever criteria they think important to them.

Again, one can pick out a hundred churches in a given area find many non-doctrinal aspects of several of those churches with which to take issue but it's each churches liberty to have such. It's each individual/families liberty to attend or not attend any particular church.

I don’t see the Bible reason for how this church is conducting itself.

“Is this a doctrinal issue?”
What is the reference for the entire practice of faith and conduct within the church? They aren’t basing this preference on the Bible.

“Does Scripture say anywhere that pastors/churches must accept interracial marriage or allow interracial couples to participate in special performances and such?”
I’m not sure what you include here as “and such?” However, where does scripture say to preclude a Christian interracial family from participating in any church functions? Is this a form of discipline? I just don’t get it?

“The Kentucky church says they allow interracial couples to attend their church, they are only barred from giving special performances, being married by in that church, or being members of that church.”
Where does this church get the authority to ban Christian brothers or sisters from membership? They weren’t involved in continuing sin like the practicing homosexual. Where is the Bible scripture supporting this preferential policy?

“Again, one can pick out a hundred churches in a given area find many non-doctrinal aspects of several of those churches with which to take issue but it's each churches liberty to have such.”
Any local group can make any decision they want for allowing people into an organization. However, as a Christian body of believers, we have one authority for faith and practice and that is the Bible. Autonomy is why I’m an Independent Fundamental Baptist. That autonomy allows me freedom to act in accordance with the Bible but doesn’t allow me to exclude based on ethnicity. If its not of God’s word then exactly what is it coming from?

It seems like this church got mad at the two wanting to get married and so decided to kick the entire family out of membership at what used to be their local church...strange?

“It's each individual/families liberty to attend or not attend any particular church.”
I agree. I would not choose this peculiar church but others might solely based on their exclusion multi-ethnic families. Edited December 5, 2011 by 1Tim115

[heartstrings]

Why would you even insinuate such a thing? Do issues where people disagree have to turn into personal matters? For myself, I'm discussing this on the matters at hand and not out of personal views.

The Scripture no more makes it clear the Ethiopian woman was black, or any other race, than does the mention of leviathan clearly say the creature was or wasn't what we would call a dinosaur. The other verses quoted with regards to the term Ethiopian have nothing to do with the Ethiopian woman in question. The simple fact is, we don't know what race the Ethiopian woman was and we don't know why Miriam opposed the marriage.

Beyond all that, none of this changes the fact that an independent church has the right to establish their own guidelines for matters not of doctrine. Those who wish to attend a church have the right to choose the church they wish to attend and reject those they don't.

The "Ethiopian" woman was Moses' wife, not just somebody he was "with", and she had something remarkable about her skin.

[brosmith]

It is obvious that some have reacted rather negatively (and violently) to my comments about interracial marriage. There are others that see it as it is: a local church issue and nothing more. I thank those who have come to my defense.

I read the Fox News article about the Kentucky church changing its position in the matter. It would appear that the church rescinded its vote in the matter due to denominational pressure and public outcry. I would like to say that I have been against interracial marriage for many years and, as a pastor, I personally refuse to bow the knee to public opinion.

The subject of Moses and the Ethiopian woman has been brought up as "proof" that God accepts interracial marriage. Let's see: The children of Israel were in Egypt for hundreds of years. Moses was born in Egypt and raised as an Egyptian. Both Ethiopia and Egypt are in Africa. Both obviously could rightly be called Africans. So where is the interracial marriage?

Why did Miriam and Aaron speak out against Moses? It was because they were jealous of his leadership position. They were guilty of fault finding and nitpicking. God defended Moses on the basis that he was chosen by God to be the leader of the nation of Israel. By the way, is it not possible that the Ethiopian woman was a descendant of migrants and that her ancestory was actually of middle eastern descent (which would make her a Shemite)? I think it would be good to look into that possibility.

Edited December 5, 2011 by brosmith

[JerryNumbers]

Its obvious too, some fail to show respect with anyone they disagree with, them make snide remarks, not only under this topic.

If they would disagree in a respectful manner, that would make a big difference.

[2Tim215]

Its obvious too, some fail to show respect with anyone they disagree with, them make snide remarks, not only under this topic.

If they would disagree in a respectful manner, that would make a big difference.

Is it right to show respect to one who does not show respect to saved believers by denying them the same rights just because of the color of their skin? Being South African I have seen the ugly side of both coins and I have also seen American IFB missionaries in MY country do the same because they hold the same beliefs as Bro Smith and others. All I know is this:

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

And this

1Co 7:21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.
1Co 7:22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.
1Co 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

And this

Eph 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

God sees the color red, not the color black - He sees the blood of Christ not a mans skin.

[John81]

Scripture says nowhere that Christians must be accepting of all who wish to marry or give our approval to all who wish to marry or are married. This extends to all marriage, not only with regards to the topic. Pastors/churches refuse to marry certain couples all the time based upon biblical matters as well as preferential matters. That's the local pastor/churches right.

The idea that a pastor/church must accept all who wish to marry, or are married, has no more biblical support than does the idea that virtually anything goes for weddings and pastors/churches are wrong to deny the use of certain music, slides, etc.

Couples have been shown disapproval for marriage for a myriad of reasons, with race being a small part of the whole.

Such matters are under the discretion of the local pastor/church. We are all free to attend the church we wish just as we are free to not attend any church we are not in agreement with.

No on has said that anyone be rejected from being presented the Gospel, from being accepted as a brother/sister in Christ, or prevented from attending church services. The only matters where the interracial couples were barred were in matters of special events that are at the discretion of each local pastor/church to determine.

[Anon]

BroSmith did say he is against interracial couples serving in his church. I assume that means if a white man married a black woman, both born again Christians and faithful, he would not allow them to teach Sunday School or usher.

If this is true....its not Bible. True, its his own decision...and its his own church....I'm just saying...he has no Bible for this position.

I know a foreign white/black couple who were dedicated underground Christians and they fasted and prayed along with their families for 3 days before marrying each other. I wonder how many of us fasted and prayed for three days solid, with our family, before getting married? There would probably be a lot less divorce if we did.