Does our appearance for Christ make a difference?

[John81]

I also have a question: If we are to live according to Johns interpretation of the particular scripture, can I grow my hair down to my shoulders as a man? Did men not have shoulder length hair in Paul's days? So how can we say that men must have short hair that is mans traditions and woman must have long hair according to "biblical" traditions Two faced coin here. I personally prefer long hair on a woman, but would not call one a sinner if her hair was short. Nor would I call a man one for having long hair.

Just what is my "interpretation of the particular Scripture"? I said just what Scripture says, men are to have short hair, women are to have long hair. I also stated long hair could be viewed as a broad category and short hair could be viewed as a small, but yet also somewhat broad category. There is room for different hair lengths within the long and the short category.

There is a borderline there somewhere but Scripture isn't specific on just what that is which is why I said I like David Cloud's take on it, which is if one is wondering if their hair is short/long enough, then it isn't. However we wear our hair, we should not be wondering whether or not it fits into the long or short category, we should be sure that it does. For example, a man with a Marine recruit haircut would certainly have short hair, but that doesn't mean all men must have hair that short. A man with a crewcut would have hair much longer than the Marine recruit but his hair would still be short. (just using this as an example most can picture)

Most IFB churches I know of would not accept a man having shoulder length hair (I don't know why you think men in Paul's day has such). Most within such a church would have no problem with such a man being confronted about his hair. However, if one of the women of the church cut her hair very short, so one couldn't tell if she were a man or woman from behind, in many of these churches there would fear to say anything. Why the double standard?

Some Baptist churches do accept men with shoulder length hair, some even longer, but those that I know of are not IFB. I've seen a few where many of the men look more like women and many of the women look more like men when looking at their hair.

In any event, why would we all (male and female) not want to have our hair so it CLEARLY is within the bounds of Scripture?

[2Tim215]

You seem to be saying, whatever your preference is, is right.

The Bible does say something about this, that is if your ready to accept the Bible as truth.

1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

That is not what I am saying. I made it quite clear that I am questioning the motives behind traditions of today's churches and what is the line (if any) and where is that line. Who decides the line? And according to nature a lions main is his glory and that is long whilst the lioness is short - explain that one :D

[2Tim215]

Just what is my "interpretation of the particular Scripture"? I said just what Scripture says, men are to have short hair, women are to have long hair. I also stated long hair could be viewed as a broad category and short hair could be viewed as a small, but yet also somewhat broad category. There is room for different hair lengths within the long and the short category.

There is a borderline there somewhere but Scripture isn't specific on just what that is which is why I said I like David Cloud's take on it, which is if one is wondering if their hair is short/long enough, then it isn't. However we wear our hair, we should not be wondering whether or not it fits into the long or short category, we should be sure that it does. For example, a man with a Marine recruit haircut would certainly have short hair, but that doesn't mean all men must have hair that short. A man with a crewcut would have hair much longer than the Marine recruit but his hair would still be short. (just using this as an example most can picture)

Most IFB churches I know of would not accept a man having shoulder length hair (I don't know why you think men in Paul's day has such). Most within such a church would have no problem with such a man being confronted about his hair. However, if one of the women of the church cut her hair very short, so one couldn't tell if she were a man or woman from behind, in many of these churches there would fear to say anything. Why the double standard?

Some Baptist churches do accept men with shoulder length hair, some even longer, but those that I know of are not IFB. I've seen a few where many of the men look more like women and many of the women look more like men when looking at their hair.

In any event, why would we all (male and female) not want to have our hair so it CLEARLY is within the bounds of Scripture?

Personally I believe no one should judge a person for the length of their hair - we are to judge people on their doctrine, not their appearance. Rather guide people and let the Lord convict them concerning their appearance - change takes time and enforcing it will always drive them to rebellion - it's the nature of man. John in his last statement is right on the money - we do want to live accordingly but my question again is if it is not precise then who decides the line?

[JerryNumbers]

A lion is not a human, & a human is not a lion, the Bible was written to man, not to a lion. And the Bible says it is a shame for the man to have long hair.So from that verse we can be sure that Jesus did not have long hair like a woman. That God mean for us to be able to tell the difference in man & woman by their hair.

I've seen women that look good with short hair, but the fact is my opinion does not matter, only God's.

In Revelation 9:8, it says, "And they had hair as the hair of women..."

Yes, when we look at a woman, we should know by the hair that we are looking at a woman, not a man.

No boxing match from me, that's just the way I see it, & that is the way I feel that God wants us to wear our hair. That doing different is disobedience.

[JerryNumbers]

Matthew 28:18,19,20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you away, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

This is a comment towards your last post, we are to teach them ' to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.'

That is everything in the Bible. And length of hair is one of them. By the way, we will be judge by what is written within the pages of the Bible, & within it we can find everything we need to know in order to trust & obey, & so that we can follow Jesus closely.

And in that day we will not be able to say, "But you did not include that within the pages of the Bible.

[2Tim215]

1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

Your scripture ref was the above, my lion comment was just me being facetious.

And in that day we will not be able to say, "But you did not include that within the pages of the Bible.

Amen - I agree

My question still is: Do we know how long is long in regards to men? Was not the hair of men at the time shoulder length? So if Paul's example was shoulder length hair for men is it acceptable today? Are woman allowed shoulder length hair if at the time Paul wrote this woman had hair that flowed down their backs? Again, who draws the line and are we not nitpicking as the pharisees did instead of focusing on more important doctrinal issues? Are we not basing our stand on those of our fore bearers 200/300 yrs ago and not on the Word? And if so, how many traditions in the church are based on those of our fore bearers and not on the Word?

Not being funny here. It is a valid question and if charismatics can use scripture to base many of their false doctrines on, can we not fall into the same trap?

[Annie]

Your scripture ref was the above, my lion comment was just me being facetious.



Amen - I agree

My question still is: Do we know how long is long in regards to men? Was not the hair of men at the time shoulder length? So if Paul's example was shoulder length hair for men is it acceptable today? Are woman allowed shoulder length hair if at the time Paul wrote this woman had hair that flowed down their backs? Again, who draws the line and are we not nitpicking as the pharisees did instead of focusing on more important doctrinal issues? Are we not basing our stand on those of our fore bearers 200/300 yrs ago and not on the Word? And if so, how many traditions in the church are based on those of our fore bearers and not on the Word?

Not being funny here. It is a valid question and if charismatics can use scripture to base many of their false doctrines on, can we not fall into the same trap?

You're asking some good and valid questions here, 2Tim. I don't think the Bible calls us to "take a stand" on a certain length of hair...It is silent on "how long is long" and "how short is short." God has given us everything we need to determine what He would have us to do. We don't need it spelled out, but should pursue His will in this area in the same way we'd pursue His will in any area--using good discernment based on Scriptural principles to help us to arrive at a conclusion. The conclusion I come to might not be exactly the same as the conclusion my brother/sister comes to, but that is no concern of mine. Edited December 6, 2011 by Annie

[HappyChristian]

kob, I just wanted to point something out to you re: the Nazarite vow: Part of the vow was, indeed, that the hair would not be cut. But that was actually time-sensitive. Nazarites took the vow as a vow of separation for a certain period of time (in Samson's, Samuel's, and John's cases, they were called to be life-long Nazarites from the womb). Once the vow was complete, the person who vowed was to come to the priest, have their head shaved and then burned. Man or woman. So, here we have a conundrum. Men who took the vow were to let their hair grow. Women who took the vow were to have their heads shaved at the completion of the vow. In both cases, it was a shame, or humiliation (or humbling).

2Tim, where do you get the idea that men's hair in Jesus' day was shoulder length? Busts of that time period show us that men's hair was, in actual fact, above the ear.

As far as the point about the lion and the lioness, in the animal world, we see that the male is always "prettier" than the female. It doesn't happen to be so (or, at least, it's not the norm) for humans.

As to the comment that we are to judge by doctrine and not appearance...while somewhat true, it is not always so that we do. in fact, God Himself tells us that man looks on the outward appearance. Yes, the teaching in that verse is that, in the modern vernacular, you "can't judge a book by its cover." However, there are 2 things about that: 1. there are times when, yes, you can judge a book by its cover (if there's a naked body on the cover, it's a safe bet that's a book we don't want to be reading...), and, 2. The fact remains that we do indeed look on the outward, so it is important that our outward displays what we believe internally. And it is a fact that what we believe internally will indeed be seen on the outside....

[JerryNumbers]

I'm not speaking about traditions of man, I'm not speaking about my preference, I'm point to what the Bible says, the Bible is clear, for a man to have long hair, it is a shame.

And I feel sure God would have not inspired 1 Corinthians 11:14 to be written as it is & had it included in the Bible if He did not mean it, if it was not a shame for a man to have long hair.

Sad, very sad, that many people claim to follow Christ, yet disobey His Word picking out verses from the Bible and claim we are not suppose to take a stand for them.


Remember:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

All Scriptures is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Picking & choosing is not an option, not if you want to trust & obey, & to follow Jesus.

[2Tim215]

2Tim, where do you get the idea that men's hair in Jesus' day was shoulder length? Busts of that time period show us that men's hair was, in actual fact, above the ear.

So far the first to point that out, Amazing how we assume that men had shoulder length hair just because we see catholic renditions of Jesus with shoulder length hair and have become indoctrinated to it. The fact is Rome was in rule at the time and roman men had short hair and were mostly always shaved. Only the savages from Europe kept their hair long.

As far as the point about the lion and the lioness, in the animal world, we see that the male is always "prettier" than the female. It doesn't happen to be so (or, at least, it's not the norm) for humans. Yep - definately not in my house

[GmaRuth]

I think if there is any doubt, it is always safe to take the higher standard. Our testimony and ability to reach the lost should always be a priority. If we are presenting ourselves in a way that a lost person would deem ungodly then we truly need to rethink how we are presenting ourselves. For me, if there is any question whether my hair is too short, then I will keep growing it. I don't know of anyone who would accuse me of having short hair. I will grow it as long as God will allow it though. I think that short hair on a woman can hurt her testimony. While short may be at least to some degree up to the individual, I personally don't want to be anywhere near the cut off point. I don't want to be barely right, I want to be very right. I don't want anyone to look at me and have any doubt.

That said, there are times when it is out of a womans control. I used to know a girl who had tried for years to grow her hair and still couldn't get it quite to her shoulders. I know thyroid and other hormonal problems can cause problems with hair growing and/or falling out. Also, there are other medical reasons for having short hair. What about the woman who went through chemo 2 years ago or had brain surgery. Someone else mentioned a woman they knew who couldn't style long hair due to a problem with their shoulder. In those cases I believe God knows the heart. He knows that it is not an act of rebellion or disobedience and I do not believe he will hold it against them. However the bible seems clear to me that in those cases a woman should wear a covering over her head. Perhaps only when she prays as someone suggested, but I don't know about you... I don't plan ahead when I am going to pray. The bible says to pray without ceasing. We should always be ready to pray. Each time we hear a siren, or a friend calls asking for prayer, or we hear of tragedy somewhere. I do not want to stop and go run for my hat, scarf or whatever I am using. If I had short hair I would cover my head at all times for that reason.

God looks upon our hearts. Of course our outward appearence is a reflection of our hearts. It is also what the lost see, they are not capable of seeing our hearts. What they see is the smile on our face and an outward submission to God. If even one person I witness to got hungup by how I looked then I have failed. I have not placed myself in the best possible position to help that soul. That soul should be of the utmost importance in everything we do day in and day out.

This subject should only be broached with love and tenderness. You can't force people to adhere to your standards. Even if you KNOW your standards align with the Bible. They should be given the information they need to make an informed spiritual decision. Would I condone a woman in position having short or shorter hair? It would greatly depend on what I knew about that woman and her walk with God. The Holy spirit needs to be given the chance to work in peoples lives and to give Christians convictions. It is his job, not mine, to tell people what to do. If the woman in question showed other signs of rebellion in her life, I would question the effectivness of her position. However my reasons for holding the higher standard, while I believe are firmly based on biblical principal, cannot and should not be forced upon others. I have heard of Pastors who dictated to their people. I know of several churches that ended up closing for that reason. If people are adhering to standards only because their Pastor says they have to, then they will not keep those same standards once the Pastor is gone. Which is why I believe this must only be approached in love with a submissive heart and desire to help and guide God's people.

I just thought I would add my 2 cents for whatever they are worth.