Women & rape

[farouk]

Absolutely not, and to say so is absurd, and very hurtful to women who have been raped.

Women who have been raped have shame, embarrassment, grief, loss, hurt, brokenness, etc. that needs to be healed, and which will likely never heal on its own.

Men who perpetrate such crimes are sick individuals who have a desire to force control upon a woman and have power over her. That crime has very little to do with lust. It has to deal with power, causing shame to another individual to make the criminal feel better, etc.

I am astonished that some people think the way a woman dresses has anything to do with rape or murder. That is absurd, ludicrous, and does nothing to contribute to the healing a woman who has been a victim of such crime needs to experience.

kindofblue1977:

Well, though it might be astonishing, yet if the basic mindset is so extremely conservative that the decision has evidently been made to castigate women with a long list of items of wear and to take it to an extreme conclusion, then we will end up being astonished at the extremism.

[HappyChristian]

Um, who castigated women with a long list of items to wear? No-one, so let's not go there. Modesty is a command given to women. Some law enforcement officers believe there is a slight link between dress and rape. I, personally do not believe there is in every case, or even in the majority of cases. As I've said before, it's more linked to power on the part of men.

But immodesty (as has been mentioned, in dress AND behavior) contributes to many problems....

[farouk]

Um, who castigated women with a long list of items to wear? No-one, so let's not go there. Modesty is a command given to women. Some law enforcement officers believe there is a slight link between dress and rape. I, personally do not believe there is in every case, or even in the majority of cases. As I've said before, it's more linked to power on the part of men.

But immodesty (as has been mentioned, in dress AND behavior) contributes to many problems....

HappyChristian:

Okay so I think, as secondary references to other ppl's views, pants and swimwear were mentioned, above.

I think there was a judge in Italy who threw out a case because he claimed it would have been impossible without being consensual because the lady's blue jeans would have been ... but I won't go any further.

The are all sorts of ways of saying, blame the victim, without using the words. (I know you're not arguing this.)

[JerryNumbers]

Well, excuse me, Jerry. Remember that next time you add something to someone's thread that wasn't in the OP, okay?

Happy Christian, If I came off wrong I apologize. I was just trying to say that in my question I in no way meant such situations as you brought. I can't think of another incident, Jessica Lunsford, that was in no way her fault. And there are many incidents where the woman would share no blame at all.

[JerryNumbers]

My husband likes to watch shows that deal with true crimes (like unsolved ones, or the process of solving them) and seems like in *most* cases, the crimes are done by people the victim knows (domestic problems), or because of drugs or just bad company...people someone meets in a bar, etc. In those cases (which comprise most cases, IMO) it is often the fault of both parties, to a greater or less degree.

In random crimes, it is solely the fault of the perpetrator, IMHO.

Therefore, to be sure I am ON topic....the issue of modesty would have to be looked at separately in each situation and could not be generalized. And even then, everybody has a different opinion on "modest". Many people here feel that pants are modest....some feel that only skirts are modest...and some would feel that even one piece bathing suits are modest. So this question is virtually impossible to fully answer.

Your correct, everyone has a different opinion of dressing modest, more especially worldly people versus conservative godly people. Yet even conservatives will not all share the same opinion of what modest dress would be.


I feel sure the young woman walking down the street dressed in short shorts with a crop top thinks she is dressed modest, especially if her mother taught her to dress in this manner. And I have seen mother's and daughters at Walmart with the mother dressed immodest and the teenaged daughter dressed modest.

My idea of modest is to dress in a dress that goes below the knee, and of course no low cut dresses, blouses, and no skin tight fitting clothes. With a woman dressed in that manner there is no guarantee that something can't happen to her, especially if she ventures into unsafe areas.


I should have stated the question a bit differently, hind sight is always much better.

I suppose I should have stated, in such situation where the woman is not dressed modest, does she share any blame.


A young woman ought to be able to go home at anytime of the day dressed how ever she wishes without something bad happening, & if we lived in a perfect world they could. But we live in a fallen world, and those who do not take precaution may not have a tomorrow.

[John81]

As always, whether man or woman, if we follow the guidance of Scripture we will be much better off than if we follow the ways of the world or our own personal preferences.

[Wilchbla]

I see a lot of the good Christian women in here have swallowed the feminist line about rape not being a sexual thing. If you dress like a slut men will treat you like one.

[HappyChristian]

I see a lot of the good Christian women in here have swallowed the feminist line about rape not being a sexual thing. If you dress like a slut men will treat you like one.

It's not a feminist line - it's been shown in many ways that much of rape is a power thing.

My mom was raped when she was younger: she was not dressed immodestly. It was a control/power thing.

My best friend when I was 18 was raped and murdered. It was not a dress issue: he caught her doing her laundry, fully dressed, demanded her to take her clothes off, found that he could not rape her and so pounded her head against the floor until it was like hamburger meat. Power.

The two girls I've spoken about in this thread and another who were sodomized: it wasn't about sex, it was about power. Don't ever kid yourself that when knives are taken to the victim, or the victim(s) are tied up, it's about treating a "slut" like a "slut." It's about power over a weaker being (I say being because it's even true when men rape weaker men...which happens often).

The woman I referenced earlier in the thread who was raped in church was the daughter of an evangelist with whom we are all familiar (he had several daughters, and I'm not naming names). She was always quite modestly dressed.

What about rapes that take place in nursing homes? Tell me that those 80-, 90-, 100-year old women are dressed immodestly and rouse the sexual lust of the men who work there. Yeah, that's more feminist screed, isn't it?

Let's look at Ted Bundy...he was a pervert who raped and murdered women - and it wasn't about just sex. It was about power as well - he admitted it. And there are so many more...sexual perversion is actually the root of many crimes which are about POWER.

I do believe that a lot of the problem stems from the feminist movement (not the FACT that many rapes are about power). With the aggressiveness of feminists pushing women to take power over men.

(I remember in college, one of my professors said that he believed that the renewed popularity of the beard on men was in part due to the fact that women can't grow beards, so it's something that only men could do.)

The lowering of dress standards and the prevalence of sexual talk that is rampant today create thought processes around which lasciviousness rotates. That, combined with the weakening of men's authority by the feminist movement has resulted in more rapes (and murders afterward) than ever before.

Jerry8 - I see now what you're saying. I do agree that there are situations in which a woman is not dressed properly and the result is rape. But, as Annie pointed out, I think it's two different sins - albeit different sins that interlink. I think there is some impact, but not in the majority of situations.

[farouk]

If everyone dressed like 19th nuns and monks, it still wouldn't change the heart.

[John81]

Yes, some rapes are about power, but not all rapes. Radical feminists teach that all rape is about man asserting power over women.

Even with some of the power aspects of rape, sex is also a factor. This sort of power/sex aspect can be seen (but shouldn't be) with regards to those who engage in tying a partner up, spankings, role playing, and other things that some married couples engage in and also some who are way out there on the edge. Porn and prostitution are much involved with such.

Just as some sinners steal or kill for different reasons, those who rape do so as well. Some we can be on guard for, some we can take precautions against, and some things just seem to come from the unexpected.

LuAnne, I'm very sorry for what those you knew went through. It saddens me deeply to think anyone would ever have to suffer such and makes me so much the more long for Christ to return.

[John81]

If everyone dressed like 19th nuns and monks, it still wouldn't change the heart.

No, but it some cases it would prevent the lust of the eye.

[farouk]

No, but it some cases it would prevent the lust of the eye.

This may be one aspect, but are you going to blame every woman who doesn't dress like a nun? I doubt it, somehow.

Blessings.

[HappyChristian]

Modesty is vital for Christian women - in both dress and behavior. But rape, no matter the reason, is the fault of the rapist.

[John81]

Modesty is vital for Christian women - in both dress and behavior. But rape, no matter the reason, is the fault of the rapist.

Agreed.

That said, I think we agree that if a women dresses very immodestly, attends parties with unsaved, drunken lustful guys, gets drunk herself, that she puts herself in danger of attack. The woman would be accountable for putting herself in such a position but that in no way makes the guilt of an attacker any less.

As we have said also, not all women are attacked because of their dress or how they carry themselves. Some are attacked because of convenience to the one attacking. I believe it was you who mentioned that many women are attacked by someone they know. These attacks can come because of many reasons that do not include how the woman dresses or even how modest her lifestyle is.

In the end, in some instances women can diminish their chances of being attacked, and most certainly so if they abide by the Word. In all cases where a woman is raped, the full guilt for the rape is upon the rapist and he deserves to pay the full penalty.

[farouk]

Maybe folks are now more on the same page than they appeared to be at the beginning....