Women & rape

[John81]

Yes it has an impact, but it is no excuse for the scumbag who raped/murdered the girl.

Exactly!

[Anon]

Usually its not *just* dress, anyway...the great majority of rapes are done because the woman is not only wearing the wrong clothes, but she is at the wrong place, late at night, with the wrong people. In that case, the rape could be the consequence of very poor choices the woman has made, and sometimes sin (like drinking and thus unable to make rational decisions about where she is and what she is doing.)

When it comes to random rapes by strangers, I don't think dress has as much to do with it because of how random the crime is. I do fear sometimes that dress may be part of why certain young girls are abducted, which is why mothers should be careful how they dress their daughters...but still...usually the super random crimes don't have as much to do with dress..."random" meaning the victim is just minding their own business and not putting themselves willingly into a compromising situation (i.e. maybe just jogging, or at home, or something like that.)

[farouk]

Usually its not *just* dress, anyway...the great majority of rapes are done because the woman is not only wearing the wrong clothes, but she is at the wrong place, late at night, with the wrong people. In that case, the rape could be the consequence of very poor choices the woman has made, and sometimes sin (like drinking and thus unable to make rational decisions about where she is and what she is doing.)

When it comes to random rapes by strangers, I don't think dress has as much to do with it because of how random the crime is. I do fear sometimes that dress may be part of why certain young girls are abducted, which is why mothers should be careful how they dress their daughters...but still...usually the super random crimes don't have as much to do with dress..."random" meaning the victim is just minding their own business and not putting themselves willingly into a compromising situation (i.e. maybe just jogging, or at home, or something like that.)

kitagrl:

So how can it be their 'fault' if the victims are chosen at random? Exactly.

[Covenanter]

I answered "NO!"

Does temptation in any way justify sin?

If you live in a good house, in a prosperous district, & wear smart clothes, are you advertising that you are rich, & therefore inviting robbery?

If you are elderly, & walk alone, are you advertising that you are an easy target for mugging?

I deplore the reasoning behind the question. And I also deplore the provocative style of dress - but that's a different matter.

[John81]

Usually its not *just* dress, anyway...the great majority of rapes are done because the woman is not only wearing the wrong clothes, but she is at the wrong place, late at night, with the wrong people. In that case, the rape could be the consequence of very poor choices the woman has made, and sometimes sin (like drinking and thus unable to make rational decisions about where she is and what she is doing.)

When it comes to random rapes by strangers, I don't think dress has as much to do with it because of how random the crime is. I do fear sometimes that dress may be part of why certain young girls are abducted, which is why mothers should be careful how they dress their daughters...but still...usually the super random crimes don't have as much to do with dress..."random" meaning the victim is just minding their own business and not putting themselves willingly into a compromising situation (i.e. maybe just jogging, or at home, or something like that.)

You bring up points that are most often not even considered, much less acknowledged. The radical feminists succeeded in promoting the myth that all rape is about power, has nothing to do with sex and is totally a woman-hating mans opressive nature coming through. While it's true some rape is about power, it's also true that in those cases it's often sexual aspect and not simply about man ruling over woman as the radical feminists proclaim.

Some rape victims are somewhat randomly chosen, but typically the rapist has a certain "type" he is looking for or is looking for a potential victim in the "right place".

Many rapes are perpetrated by those who have strong sexual urges they can't, or refuse, to control. Such rapists tend to target women they think are "easy", "offering", or "asking for it" by their dress and the way they conduct themselves.

The abduction aspect is a good point to bring up because many of these are centered upon rape. This is often overlooked or underreported, with the abduction aspect taking the center. Some women are abducted somewhat randomly, but most often the attacker has either chose his victime prior to the attack or has gone forth with a certain "type" he intends to attack.

Not all rapes can be prevented, just like not all of any crime can be prevented. However, many could be prevented by women dressing modestly, conducting themselves decently, taking care where they go and when, not getting drunk or high on drugs, not being alone in potentially dangerous places, etc.

If all that were done there would still be rapes, but there would be fewer of them.

Many rapes occur as "rapes of opportunity" in cases such as "date rapes" and "party rapes". These, especially the "party rapes", should be among the easiest for a woman to protect themselves from but instead seem to be among the more common occurances.

[John81]

I answered "NO!"

Does temptation in any way justify sin?

If you live in a good house, in a prosperous district, & wear smart clothes, are you advertising that you are rich, & therefore inviting robbery?

If you are elderly, & walk alone, are you advertising that you are an easy target for mugging?

I deplore the reasoning behind the question. And I also deplore the provocative style of dress - but that's a different matter.

No one is saying that if a woman dressing in a sexually tempting manner that such dress justifies rape. What has been said is that such dress can have an impact upon whether or not some women are raped or not.

If I leave my house for a week and the door is closed and locked, or if I leave my door open and unlocked, I'm not wanting to be robbed but in the case where the door is open I've increased the risk of being robbed.

[JerryNumbers]

The way the poll question is phrased is ambiguous; that's why I didn't vote. Does "have an impact" mean "affect statistics in general" or is it talking about forming an opinion about specific situations? It seems that Jerry is arguing for blaming the victim.

The way the poll question is phrased is ambiguous; that's why I didn't vote. Does "have an impact" mean "affect statistics in general" or is it talking about forming an opinion about specific situations? It seems that Jerry is arguing for blaming the victim.

No it isn't, your reading into it making it mean what you desire, not what I asked, the question is actually quite simple, and I'm placing it below.

"Do you feel that the way some women dress, & or lack of dress, dressing in revealing clothes has an impact on being raped & murdered?"

Does it have any impact? A simple yes or no would be the only answer for this question, unless you want to twist it.

[JerryNumbers]

Rape is not usually about sexual lust, anyway. It is usually about power. Male power and dominance over the female. The two young ladies that I used to teach who were sodomized by a man were not in any way to blame - they were not immodestly dressed, but even if they were, it was not about him seeing them, being aroused and then raping. It was all about power. If it were not, he would not have raped at knife point, while the one not being raped was tied up and forced to watch (he did it that way to both of them).

There are times when a woman is raped because the couple has gone "too far" on a date, and she tries to call a halt, but he doesn't pay attention. That is a result of their equal sin of being involved pre-sexually when they shouldn't.

There are rapes that are caused due to stimulation from things like pornography - but, again, these are actions of power more than sexual thirst. This power is a lust, as well.

Immodest dress is wrong, and does not please the Lord. However, using that as an excuse to rape a woman is passing the buck.I think any man on here would have to admit that he has seen immodestly dressed women too much during his lifetime. Simply because that is so prevalent in our culture. But have any resorted to rape? I sincerely doubt it.

Job said that he made a covenant with his eyes to never look on a maid...and the women were much fuller clothed back then. Could it be that, rather than the onus being on the woman for what she wears, Job knew that it is on the man for allowing his lust (whether it be sexual lust or lust for power and dominance) to run amok.

There is no doubt that women need to dress more modestly. But when completely clothed grandmothers are being raped, the problem goes deeper than clothing....

My question did not have nothing to do with what you have brought in, it was only about immodest dressed women.

[HappyChristian]

Well, excuse me, Jerry. Remember that next time you add something to someone's thread that wasn't in the OP, okay?

[Anon]

My husband likes to watch shows that deal with true crimes (like unsolved ones, or the process of solving them) and seems like in *most* cases, the crimes are done by people the victim knows (domestic problems), or because of drugs or just bad company...people someone meets in a bar, etc. In those cases (which comprise most cases, IMO) it is often the fault of both parties, to a greater or less degree.

In random crimes, it is solely the fault of the perpetrator, IMHO.

Therefore, to be sure I am ON topic....the issue of modesty would have to be looked at separately in each situation and could not be generalized. And even then, everybody has a different opinion on "modest". Many people here feel that pants are modest....some feel that only skirts are modest...and some would feel that even one piece bathing suits are modest. So this question is virtually impossible to fully answer.

[farouk]

... everybody has a different opinion on "modest". Many people here feel that pants are modest....some feel that only skirts are modest...and some would feel that even one piece bathing suits are modest. So this question is virtually impossible to fully answer.

"His Honor: Before I sentence, describe the design of your client's swimsuit, or pants.

Lawyer: Huh?"

Lawyer and client: (whisper)

Lawyer: Your Honor, I beg to move that your question is irrelevant."

[Miss Linda]

My husband likes to watch shows that deal with true crimes (like unsolved ones, or the process of solving them) and seems like in *most* cases, the crimes are done by people the victim knows (domestic problems), or because of drugs or just bad company...people someone meets in a bar, etc. In those cases (which comprise most cases, IMO) it is often the fault of both parties, to a greater or less degree.

In random crimes, it is solely the fault of the perpetrator, IMHO.

Therefore, to be sure I am ON topic....the issue of modesty would have to be looked at separately in each situation and could not be generalized. And even then, everybody has a different opinion on "modest". Many people here feel that pants are modest....some feel that only skirts are modest...and some would feel that even one piece bathing suits are modest. So this question is virtually impossible to fully answer.

Modesty is a much larger issue than merely the attire one chooses--modesty relates both to dress and deportment. A modest woman would avoid placing herself in a situation where she was alone with men who were not related to her (father/brother/son/husband). A modest woman would never go to a bar or be out late at night without being escorted by men related to her (or being in a group of people--such as driving home from a church excursion). It simply isn't safe, and it certainly isn't seemly. A modest woman would not allow herself to be alone with a man who was courting her in a private place. Too many assaults on women, sadly, occur when women place themselves in these very situations.

Like John81 said, "Not all rapes can be prevented, just like not all of any crime can be prevented. However, many could be prevented by women dressing modestly, conducting themselves decently, taking care where they go and when, not getting drunk or high on drugs, not being alone in potentially dangerous places, etc." In other words, dressing and conducting themselves modestly.

[HappyChristian]

Hmmmm...I'm thinking of a lady who always dressed modestly, carried herself modestly, and was IN CHURCH when she was grabbed, taken into a room and raped...

There may be some impact due to women's dress, but the majority of rapes are a result of power play on the part of the man.

[farouk]

Ms Linda:

Sometimes spiriually minded women will cross the world, alone, and serve God as a missionary, and be potentially in all sorts of dangerous situations. I'm not sure about the argument that they shouldn't go, in case they are alone.

Blessings.

[no name joe]

Absolutely not, and to say so is absurd, and very hurtful to women who have been raped.

Women who have been raped have shame, embarrassment, grief, loss, hurt, brokenness, etc. that needs to be healed, and which will likely never heal on its own.

Men who perpetrate such crimes are sick individuals who have a desire to force control upon a woman and have power over her. That crime has very little to do with lust. It has to deal with power, causing shame to another individual to make the criminal feel better, etc.

I am astonished that some people think the way a woman dresses has anything to do with rape or murder. That is absurd, ludicrous, and does nothing to contribute to the healing a woman who has been a victim of such crime needs to experience.