What is hell?

[Guest]

So you are willing to accept men as experts in matters pertaining to God? Remember I Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Since Strong's only reports how words are used in the AKJ, if the AKJ mis-uses words then Strong's simply reiterates the AKJ's error.

I'm willing to submit these men, the authors, to the same scrutiny as experts for the references you didn't provide. Your original source for your supposition has not been presented for the same scrutiny as experts because you’ve stated you lost it.

Have you read the testimony of the men you site for your evidence? I have examined the lives of the authors of the KJV and Strong’s, their dedication and motivations are impeccable in the court of the world. Before God, the authors I site humbled themselves as mere sinners saved by God’s grace and surrendered themselves to God’s glory. Whose glory are your references surrendered to? You may want to do some research to determine who the more trustworthy source is; I advise against wikipedia for this research.

The scripture you’ve mentioned is great! Keep reading scripture! However, you can’t have things both ways. The scriptures are cautionary to those who trust Jesus is the Christ, God’s only begotten son. These sources of reference have stood the test of time.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

I would like to mention a few things in passing about I Corinthians 3:19. The entire chapter is devoted to “what” men build upon the foundation established by Christ. If men build to glorify men and not God then we must be cautious of them. The authors of both the KJV and Strong’s Concordance were building to allow men to better understand God’s word.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So, I say again, something never struggles against nothing. Something wants to delay you until your time is up, that is, your dead or Jesus Christ returns; then all opportunity for your salvation is ended. The more you struggle, the more you begin to see, there is something you can’t see which opposes you. Presently, you’re on the wrong side and in opposition to God. There is still no other way to God; you must go through God. Edited March 20, 2011 by 1Tim115

[betteroffdead]

I'm willing to submit these men, the authors, to the same scrutiny as experts for the references you didn't provide. Your original source for your supposition has not been presented for the same scrutiny as experts because you’ve stated you lost it.

I didn't say one word about whether or not these other sources are accurate. I was merely illustrating that some sources disagree with the conclusions made by the AKJ translators. But then you would be disingenuous if you present the AKJ without acknowledging any possible errors it may have. You cannot expect someone to take your conclusions about the AKJ at face value because your conclusions are premised on your preconceived idea that these translators were perfect in their work. You have no proof that the AKJ translators were inspired by God, so you cannot use the AKJ to verify the qualifications of the AKJ translators.

I have examined the lives of the authors of the KJV and Strong’s, their dedication and motivations are impeccable in the court of the world.

According to Payne (The Learned Men) one of the AKJ translators was a drunk- drinking his fill daily. Another complained about the workload and wanted to be paid for his efforts so he wasn't doing the translation work out of the goodness of his heart. All of the translators that worked on the final edit at Stationers’ Hall were paid a salary by the AKJ's printer Robert Baker so they personally profited by their work that was supposedly done on God's behalf.

[betteroffdead]

Note what God told Adam and Eve in Genesis 2:17:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Since Adam and Eve did not physically die on the day they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the immediate death that God warned them about had to be spiritual death, i.e. their souls died the day that Adam and Eve sinned.

So when did simple death for the soul as punishment for sin become eternal torment for the soul as punishment for sin, and what right did God have to change the rules in the middle of the game? If physical torment for all eternity is the penalty for sin, why didn’t God tell Adam and Eve that their souls would suffer eternal torment if they disobeyed Him?

[heartstrings]

Psalm 118:1
O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: because his mercy endureth for ever

2Let Israel now say, that his mercy endureth for ever.

3Let the house of Aaron now say, that his mercy endureth for ever.

4Let them now that fear the LORD say, that his mercy endureth for ever.

5I called upon the LORD in distress: the LORD answered me, and set me in a large place.

6The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?
7The LORD taketh my part with them that help me: therefore shall I see my desire upon them that hate me.

8It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

9It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.


Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. 43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:


I've learned even more, the past few years, that men cannot be trusted.
Believe God's Word.

[betteroffdead]

Psalm 118:1
O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: because his mercy endureth for ever

2Let Israel now say, that his mercy endureth for ever.

3Let the house of Aaron now say, that his mercy endureth for ever.

4Let them now that fear the LORD say, that his mercy endureth for ever.

5I called upon the LORD in distress: the LORD answered me, and set me in a large place.

6The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?
7The LORD taketh my part with them that help me: therefore shall I see my desire upon them that hate me.

8It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

9It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.


Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. 43And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:


I've learned even more, the past few years, that men cannot be trusted.
Believe God's Word.

Since we do not have all, if any, of the Bible’s original documents and if you cannot read the Bible’s original languages, you have to trust men to a certain extent because the only Bible you can possiblly have is a translation of a copy of the original documents.

[betteroffdead]

Note what Jesus said in Mark:

9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Jesus was referring to Isaiah 66:24 and since God is the author of His Word, Jesus surely knew the context of this verse in Isaiah:

66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

So by the standards of the people that preach eternal torment in hellfire Jesus is saying that the righteous will also go to hell because the righteous will look upon the carcasses of the wicked.

So I hope you all enjoy your time in hell because that is where your Jesus says you are going.

[Guest]

I didn't say one word about whether or not these other sources are accurate. I was merely illustrating that some sources disagree with the conclusions made by the AKJ translators. But then you would be disingenuous if you present the AKJ without acknowledging any possible errors it may have. You cannot expect someone to take your conclusions about the AKJ at face value because your conclusions are premised on your preconceived idea that these translators were perfect in their work. You have no proof that the AKJ translators were inspired by God, so you cannot use the AKJ to verify the qualifications of the AKJ translators.



According to Payne (The Learned Men) one of the AKJ translators was a drunk- drinking his fill daily. Another complained about the workload and wanted to be paid for his efforts so he wasn't doing the translation work out of the goodness of his heart. All of the translators that worked on the final edit at Stationers’ Hall were paid a salary by the AKJ's printer Robert Baker so they personally profited by their work that was supposedly done on God's behalf.

No, you don’t attest to any accuracy in anything you’ve stated thus far. So, far you’ve been inaccurate.

You spoke of Richard Thomson, one of the committee members in the translation for the 1611 KJV. Pronounced a drunkard by Prynne who only slightly knew of Thomson. However, Richard Montagu, who knew him well, says that he was ‘a most admirable philologer,’ and that ‘he was better known in Italy, France, and Germany than at home.

The translators were not paid directly for their work, “instead a circular letter was sent to bishops encouraging them to consider the translators for appointment to well paid livings as these fell vacant. Several were supported by the various colleges at Oxford and Cambridge, while others were promoted to bishoprics, deaneries and prebends through royal patronage.” Either you or the source you used are in error about Barker paying the translators.
If they were paid, then become familiar with this scripture…
1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Yes, the translation was for God’s glory and He preserved His truth within the KJV.

It’s become evident you prefer a certain path. You are a lost sinner and on your way to an eternal hell. You would like to cast doubt and attempt to bring others with you. Misery does love company, so I’ve heard, you can speak more accurately to that. Remember, if you ever open your eyes, Jesus Christ is waiting to forgive you for your sins.

You don't like being wrong do you?

[betteroffdead]

You spoke of Richard Thomson, one of the committee members in the translation for the 1611 KJV. Pronounced a drunkard by Prynne who only slightly knew of Thomson. However, Richard Montagu, who knew him well, says that he was ‘a most admirable philologer,’ and that ‘he was better known in Italy, France, and Germany than at home.

How does this mean he wasn’t also a drunk? How can you cite a man’s reputation in the world as qualifications that entitle him to do God’s work? It doesn’t matter how well a man is known in the world. What matters is how well he is known in Heaven.

The translators were not paid directly for their work, “instead a circular letter was sent to bishops encouraging them to consider the translators for appointment to well paid livings as these fell vacant.

Something I am already well aware of. And it still means that the translators stood to gain financially because of work you say they did on God’s behalf.

Either you or the source you used are in error about Barker paying the translators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorized_King_James_Version

“From January 1609, a General Committee of Review met at Stationers' Hall, London to review the completed marked texts from each of the six committees. The General Committee included John Bois, Andrew Downes and John Harmar, and others known only by their initials, including ‘AL’ (who may be Arthur Lake), and were paid for their attendance by the Stationers' Company.”

http://www.houseandhome.org/tag/the-king-james-bible

“After four years three copies of the whole Bible were sent from Cambridge, Oxford and Westminster to London, and two out of each company were chosen to review the whole and prepare one copy for the press. Dr. Bois was sent with Mr. Downes, and daily they met with two others each, from Oxford and Westminster, in Stationers’ Hall for three-quarters of a year. The Company of Stationers paid them each three shillings a week…”

“…The final Committee consisted of twelve from Westminster, Cambridge and Oxford, and the actual translation occupied about two years and nine months–nine months more being spent in the final preparation for the press. The printer, Robert Barker, later stated that he had paid 3,500 pounds toward this revision.”

Yes, the translation was for God’s glory and He preserved His truth within the KJV.

Prove it.

[Guest]

Prove it.

I'm here being moved by God's Spirit, something I don't see physically...you're there in opposition to it all. What better proof could I have?

[JerryNumbers]

I mean it. It was no mistake. God loves the world and I believe world means everyone, not just the elect. This is what the Bible teaches. I believe God wishes that none would perish. This is what the Bible teaches. The Bible also teaches that God will cast the unrepentant into hell fire.For they have not been washed white by the blood of Jesus. It would be against his just and holy nature if he allowed sinners into Heaven. So at the same time it is his final will. I firmly believe this to be the Biblical truth. Another way to think about it, and I admit if falls short, is that of a human judge. A judge that sentences a serial killer to death. The judge may be sad about the situation but it is his will to send him to his death.

Revelation 20:15

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Go back and read what you stated in that post, you did not stated the same thing in that post as you did in this one.

This is what you stated in that post. Just click on it and you will go to the post were you made that statement.

MatthewDiscipleOfGod wrote:
"Christ's will is that all that die in sin suffer in everlasting hell."

That statement comes no where close to describing Jesus' feeling towards us.

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

That statement comes no where close to describing Jesus' feeling towards us.

Jerry, so you believe when God casts unrepentant sinners into hell that he is going against his own will? If the answer is yes I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

[JerryNumbers]

Jerry, so you believe when God casts unrepentant sinners into hell that he is going against his own will? If the answer is yes I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

NO, I agree partially, yes, ALL that do not repent of their sins accepting Jesus as Savior will find their self in the lake of fire

What I disagree with is the way this is said.

"Christ's will is that all that die in sin suffer in everlasting hell."

I really don't believe that Jesus will is that anyone suffers in everlasting hell, He wants all to be saved. He will send those that reject that free gift into the lake of fire, yet His will is that no one suffers that, His will is that all are saved.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

I think I understand what your trying to say, I just disagree with the way your saying it.

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

I think I understand what your trying to say, I just disagree with the way your saying it.

I believe you are probably right. It can sometimes be hard to convey ones ideas over a platform such as this.

[JerryNumbers]

I believe you are probably right. It can sometimes be hard to convey ones ideas over a platform such as this.

My bad too, for I did not rightly say it as I should have at 1st, sorry!

[1Timothy115]

I'm here being moved by God's Spirit, something I don't see physically...you're there in opposition to it all. What better proof could I have?

If you're watching...I'm praying for you.
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.