What is hell?

[betteroffdead]

I’ve been told that the Bible never promises sinners eternal life. If this is true, how can the Bible promise sinners eternal punishment with physical torment? If someone isn’t alive somehow, how can be conscious of their torment? And if a sinner suffering eternal punishment isn’t conscious of their torment, what purpose would their torment serve?

Isn’t the idea of eternal torment for the wicked a means of seeking revenge on the wicked- who wouldn’t want an Adolf Hitler to roast in eternal hellfire- meaning that people that rely on eternal hellfire don’t really want to forgive their enemies as God commands them to do? And how can God command His faithful to forgive their enemies if God Himself is going to inflict eternal hellfire on His own enemies?

[Invicta]

I’ve been told that the Bible never promises sinners eternal life. If this is true, how can the Bible promise sinners eternal punishment with physical torment? If someone isn’t alive somehow, how can be conscious of their torment? And if a sinner suffering eternal punishment isn’t conscious of their torment, what purpose would their torment serve?

Isn’t the idea of eternal torment for the wicked a means of seeking revenge on the wicked- who wouldn’t want an Adolf Hitler to roast in eternal hellfire- meaning that people that rely on eternal hellfire don’t really want to forgive their enemies as God commands them to do? And how can God command His faithful to forgive their enemies if God Himself is going to inflict eternal hellfire on His own enemies?

You are correct, the bible promises everlasting life, John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. From the time we believe, it is everlasting. Eternal means from eternity past to eternity future.

[Seth Doty]

I’ve been told that the Bible never promises sinners eternal life.

That is incorrect, the scriptures promise eternal life to believers who have repented and turned to Christ, it also promises a resurrection unto eternal judgement for those who reject Christ. John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

There are many other passages that say the same thing.

If this is true, how can the Bible promise sinners eternal punishment with physical torment? If someone isn’t alive somehow, how can be conscious of their torment? And if a sinner suffering eternal punishment isn’t conscious of their torment, what purpose would their torment serve?

Your premise is wrong. They are alive in a sense, in that they are conscious and have a body of some sort, but they are eternally in physical torment and eternally separated from God. Scripture speaks of this as the second death.

"John 5:26-29 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

"Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust."

Isn’t the idea of eternal torment for the wicked a means of seeking revenge on the wicked- who wouldn’t want an Adolf Hitler to roast in eternal hellfire- meaning that people that rely on eternal hellfire don’t really want to forgive their enemies as God commands them to do? And how can God command His faithful to forgive their enemies if God Himself is going to inflict eternal hellfire on His own enemies?

Here again your premise is wrong. According to scripture "everlasting fire" was prepared for the Devil and his angels, not for people. No human being goes to hell(and eventually the lake of fire) unless they choose it for themselves by rejecting Christ and therefore make the choice to align themselves with satan and his judgement. Any man or woman can and will be forgiven by God if they repent and turn to God in faith according to the scriptures. God isn't exactly sitting around chuckling to himself maliciously, and saying: ahhh, I am going to get to really roast that one, he is a exceptionally wicked sinner. Rather it is just simply a fact that the wages of sin is death and that evil produces suffering. God said this:

"Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"

If someone refuses Gods mercy, refuses to repent, and refuses Christ as their substitute, then ultimately, since God is not only love but also just and holy, he will execute pure justice. That means that person will suffer in eternal fire forever according to the scriptures since sin is such a serious matter that there is no amount of time or pain the guilty could suffer that could sufficiently pay for it. Like I said though, such a judgement is by the persons own choice since God offered them a "plea bargain" that would have stricken the sin from their record. They refused his offer of a free pardon, they essentially spat on a unbelievably generous offer, and therefore they by default chose the maximum sentence, pure justice without any mercy. That is what they then get. Edited March 18, 2011 by Seth-Doty

[Seth Doty]

You are correct, the bible promises everlasting life, John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. From the time we believe, it is everlasting. Eternal means from eternity past to eternity future.

Invicta,
Did you look at the verse right before the one you quote?

"John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." The scriptures use "eternal life" and "everlasting life" interchangeably. There is no clear cut difference between the two.

[JerryNumbers]

Your wrong, your listening to the world, not the Bible, God's Word is in the Bible.

Those that have Jesus as Savior.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Mt 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

And that those without Jesus shall have everlasting torment.

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
Its your choice of which gate to enter.

Its each persons choice which gate they enter into.

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Of course one who makes no choice, shall enter into the wide gate and receive everylasting punishment.

[John81]

Your wrong, your listening to the world, not the Bible, God's Word is in the Bible.

Those that have Jesus as Savior.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Mt 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

And that those without Jesus shall have everlasting torment.

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
Its your choice of which gate to enter.

Its each persons choice which gate they enter into.

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Of course one who makes no choice, shall enter into the wide gate and receive everylasting punishment.

Let the Bible speak! :bible:

[betteroffdead]

it also promises a resurrection unto eternal judgement for those who reject Christ.

Then where in the Bible does it say this eternal judgment means eternal torment? The total destruction of body, soul and spirit would be eternal judgement, but it would not be eternal torment.

John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

There are many other passages that say the same thing.

Jesus warned us of false christs. So how do you the voice that you are following is the voice of Jesus and not some false christ?

Your premise is wrong. They are alive in a sense, in that they are conscious and have a body of some sort, but they are eternally in physical torment and eternally separated from God. Scripture speaks of this as the second death.

"John 5:26-29 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Prove that the resurrection of damnation means eternal torment and not simply oblivion.

Here again your premise is wrong. According to scripture "everlasting fire" was prepared for the Devil and his angels, not for people.

Book, chapter, verse?

No human being goes to hell(and eventually the lake of fire) unless they choose it for themselves by rejecting Christ and therefore make the choice to align themselves with satan and his judgement.

Where is the book, chapter and verse that says the lake of fire means eternal torment and not simply the complete destruction of the body, soul and spirit?

If someone refuses Gods mercy, refuses to repent, and refuses Christ as their substitute, then ultimately, since God is not only love but also just and holy, he will execute pure justice. That means that person will suffer in eternal fire forever according to the scriptures since sin is such a serious matter that there is no amount of time or pain the guilty could suffer that could sufficiently pay for it.

How can a God of love subject anyone to eternal torment? Is your god of love going to visit hell ever-so-often to get his jollies?

[betteroffdead]

Invicta,
Did you look at the verse right before the one you quote?

"John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." The scriptures use "eternal life" and "everlasting life" interchangeably. There is no clear cut difference between the two.

How does this verse not also mean that people that reject Christ will have eternal death, i.e., oblivion?

[betteroffdead]

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Where does this verse say that God’s wrath means eternal torment and not just oblivion due to death?

And that those without Jesus shall have everlasting torment.

Book, chapter, verse?

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

The Greek word translated as everlasting could also mean an age, i.e., a period of time of definite beginning and end, but of un-determined length of time. Everlasting could very well be a mis-translation.

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
Its your choice of which gate to enter.

Everlasting punishment could be everlasting death rather than everlasting torment.

[Seth Doty]

The Greek word translated as everlasting could also mean an age, i.e., a period of time of definite beginning and end, but of un-determined length of time. Everlasting could very well be a mis-translation.

That right there tells me that more than likely your not asking a genuine question in this thread. It seems more like you have a nihilistic point of view well established and merely wish to argue for that position. I could argue the point with you but I don't particularly feel like arguing at the moment and doubt your willing to change your mind at this point in time anyway. If I am wrong and you truly have a question and a desire to know the truth, search the scriptures yourself, the answer is right there.

[betteroffdead]

That right there tells me that more than likely your not asking a genuine question in this thread. It seems more like you have a nihilistic point of view well established and merely wish to argue for that position. I could argue the point with you but I don't particularly feel like arguing at the moment and doubt your willing to change your mind at this point in time anyway. If I am wrong and you truly have a question and a desire to know the truth, search the scriptures yourself, the answer is right there.

Actually I was not aware of the possible mistranslation of this Greek word until 2 days ago.

[JerryNumbers]

Then where in the Bible does it say this eternal judgment means eternal torment? The total destruction of body, soul and spirit would be eternal judgement, but it would not be eternal torment.



Jesus warned us of false christs. So how do you the voice that you are following is the voice of Jesus and not some false christ?



Prove that the resurrection of damnation means eternal torment and not simply oblivion.



Book, chapter, verse?



Where is the book, chapter and verse that says the lake of fire means eternal torment and not simply the complete destruction of the body, soul and spirit?



How can a God of love subject anyone to eternal torment? Is your god of love going to visit hell ever-so-often to get his jollies?

I suppose you cannot read, and or you failed to read theses verse I included in my post that I am again posting for your convenience


Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:



By the way, I can give numerous verses that proclaims the very same thing, its not nice to say that God has lied to us, we should take Him at His Word.

For your convenience I have included more verses that proclaims that those who inherit hell shall have ever lasting punishment.



Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Mr 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mr 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

So now that we have that cleared up, have you anymore questions, but lets drop the thought that those that do not have Jesus as Savior shall not inherit every lasting, eternal punishment, again, its not nice to contradict, dispute, God's Word.

[Guest]

The Greek word translated as everlasting could also mean an age, i.e., a period of time of definite beginning and end, but of un-determined length of time. Everlasting could very well be a mis-translation.

Actually I was not aware of the possible mistranslation of this Greek word until 2 days ago.

How did you become aware of this, please provide your reference...link?

[betteroffdead]

[Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Prove to me that "everlasting" in this verse is not a mistranslation.

[JerryNumbers]

How did you become aware of this, please provide your reference...link?

Actually it cannot not, as used in Matthew 25:46 as well as some other verses, below you will find how the word used in this verse and its meaning.

Mt 25:46 And και these ουτος shall go away απερχομαι into εις everlasting αιωνιος punishment κολασις: but δε the righteous δικαιος into εις life ζωη eternal αιωνιος.

G166 αιωνιος aionios ahee-o'-nee-os (25)
from 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).


That is, those who enter into hell shall be there for ever and shall be conscience of their punishment forever. Yet there will be those that do not like the Bible as it is written, the old Devil never lets up, and he is busy going about deceiving whosoever he can.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
.