Would Mr. Obama take his on advise

[HappyChristian]

I don't think we can go so far as to say God determined BO's election. Allowed it, yes. Determined is a bit more emphatic, and I just don't believe God sat up there in Heaven and said, "Barack Obama will be the 43rd POTUS." There is some freedom of movement allowed to us, after all.

As to difference between BO and Mubarek, et.al., because of election, referendum (correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a referendum done by voting?)...

BO could, if he deems it necessary, declare himself to be dictator. And, if there is enough seeming danger, he can get by with it by Presidential fiat. Notice that there is much unrest due to situations like Wisconsin. He has inserted himself into this (although not as noticeably as in the Gates fiasco in PA), wrongly, and now union members and other hangers-on are traveling to WI, OH, IN and now NJ (and probably other states) to try to intimidate state lawmakers into giving in to the unions.

This is beginning to remind me of the unrest of the '60's. No, it hasn't reached that level yet, by a long shot. But there is much unrest out there. People have been taught to believe they are entitled to whatever they want from their collective bargaining, welfare, etc., and the thought of having it taken away, even if keeping it means the state going bankrupt, is too much for them.

If the level of unrest increases, and other entitled begin to protest for whatever (not that protesting is wrong...I'm all for peaceful protest - it's when intimidation to try and keep lawmakers from doing right is employed that I am against it, ala Saul Alinskey), we could be seeing the beginnings of civil war. And, in that case, BO could declare martial law and become America's first dictator.

Yep. It could happen here in America. There've been other POTUS' that folks have wondered if that was their goal...BO seems to be the one closest to it...

[John81]

The unrest could grow quickly if the predictions of the price of gas not only reach 4 dollars a gallon, but continues on up to around 5 dollars a gallon. Such a situation would have a devestating effect upon the economy and families abilities to pay their bills and still have money for food...which food prices are on the rise and if gas prices reach such levels the food prices will rise more too.

According to Scripture, it is God who places leaders in their positions and He who removes them. God placed the Pharoah during Moses time in place for His purposes, and Scripture indicates the same is true for all other leaders, whether good ones such as Joshua or wicked ones such as Stalin. God uses leaders for his purposes of sending forth blessings and cursings.

[HappyChristian]

Yes, gas prices are on the way up, again. And, isn't it interesting...last time, it was all Dubya's fault. And now, it's the GOP's fault. *snicker* The media sure doesn't like anyone who isn't a leftist!

Okay, then. Nobody needs to vote, because God's gonna do it for us. Sorry, but that is just not accurate, John. Why do you proclaim scripture says, but don't cite the scripture? Presidents are not kings, John. God doesn't put His finger on a person and say they are going to be POTUS. That is fatalism to believe that...and I'm not a Puritan (Calvanist), so I don't accept it. :saint2:

[John81]

Yes, gas prices are on the way up, again. And, isn't it interesting...last time, it was all Dubya's fault. And now, it's the GOP's fault. *snicker* The media sure doesn't like anyone who isn't a leftist!

Okay, then. Nobody needs to vote, because God's gonna do it for us. Sorry, but that is just not accurate, John. Why do you proclaim scripture says, but don't cite the scripture? Presidents are not kings, John. God doesn't put His finger on a person and say they are going to be POTUS. That is fatalism to believe that...and I'm not a Puritan (Calvanist), so I don't accept it.

Well, it's almost dinner time so I don't have time to look up the Scripture, but most here are familiar enough with Scripture to know the verses referred to. God is soveriegn and whether a leader comes about via election, heredity, a coup or whatever, God is ultimately in control. Scripture is clear that NOTHING happens with God either directly causing it to happen or allowing it to happen for His own purposes. This includes leaders, whether they be called king, president, pharaoh, prime minister, dictator, mayor, governor or whatever. This is interwoven throughout Scripture; God is in control.

[JerryNumbers]

Word play. As said, many in America have fixed many elections too, and it takes place in many elections across this country.


In such things as this man just can't help himself, in his natural state he is bent towards doing wrong..

Ro 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Ro 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Ro 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Ro 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Ro 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Ro 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Ro 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
Ro 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Ro 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

[HappyChristian]

Well, it's almost dinner time so I don't have time to look up the Scripture, but most here are familiar enough with Scripture to know the verses referred to. God is soveriegn and whether a leader comes about via election, heredity, a coup or whatever, God is ultimately in control. Scripture is clear that NOTHING happens with God either directly causing it to happen or allowing it to happen for His own purposes. This includes leaders, whether they be called king, president, pharaoh, prime minister, dictator, mayor, governor or whatever. This is interwoven throughout Scripture; God is in control.

Oh, I know the scripture you're referring to - I just don't understand why you never cite scripture when you say scripture says...

And one word you used in there is my exact point: God ALLOWS it. Determine and allow are two different words. I never said God wasn't ultimately in control. But in America, He allowed a system of government where the people choose office holders - not where things are handed down in families who control things, or armies who dictate who will rule. God being in control doesn't mean we don't have choices. God was in control in the Garden, and Adam and Eve still sinned.

We reap what we sow, and so it is seen in office holders. THAT is proof of God's being in control. But the choices are still ours. He ALLOWS that. And that is interwoven through scripture, too.

Enjoy your dinner. :clapping:

[John81]

The "choice" is ours only in as much as God allows. We can never elect someone God doesn't want to be president.

[trc123]

It's not just gas prices climbing high and fast; take a look at food prices!

[John81]

It's not just gas prices climbing high and fast; take a look at food prices!

Indeed, these have already risen and are expected to rise further even without gas prices going up. If gas prices do continue to rise, the price of food will rise even further than now projected.

It's also been reported that clothing prices are all going to climb. It seems cotton has surpassed the high selling mark set way back during the American "civil war". This coupled with weather disasters in Australia are sending prices climbing. They reported that clothing prices will rise 10% shortly and then rise even more later in the year. Again, if gas prices climb then the price of clothes will climb even more as well.

All of this plus the fact America, and most of the world, is still in a bad economic way, it won't take much to topple the economic cart here in America and in many other nations. There are already predictions of mass food shortages, riots and the collapse of governments if all these things come together.

[trc123]

I'm thinking we are not far off from being with the Lord.

[John81]

I'm thinking we are not far off from being with the Lord.

Such would be good for some of us...but for others :o

[HappyChristian]

The "choice" is ours only in as much as God allows. We can never elect someone God doesn't want to be president.

Wrong verbiage here, John. God didn't WANT Israel to have a king, but he ALLOWED it. Vast difference. And no-one will ever convince me that God WANTED BO to be POTUS...He allowed it. Again, vast difference. We are not robots - God's allowances are not always within His will.

[John81]

Wrong verbiage here, John. God didn't WANT Israel to have a king, but he ALLOWED it. Vast difference. And no-one will ever convince me that God WANTED BO to be POTUS...He allowed it. Again, vast difference. We are not robots - God's allowances are not always within His will.

No, God wants us to follow Him so He can bless us fully. However, when we fail to do so the Word tells us God sends punishments and cusings our way, and part of such comes through leaders. America turns her back upon Him so He can't give us what He truly wants, so we get what we deserve and this comes from Him as well.

"And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:" Daniel 2:21

[trc123]

No, God wants us to follow Him so He can bless us fully. However, when we fail to do so the Word tells us God sends punishments and cusings our way, and part of such comes through leaders. America turns her back upon Him so He can't give us what He truly wants, so we get what we deserve and this comes from Him as well.

"And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:" Daniel 2:21

While the verse in Daniel does say that God sets up and removes kings, it does not say that God wanted the nation of Israel to have a king. LuAnne is correct, God didn't want them to have an earthly king as God himself was to be their king on high. Go back and read about it in 1st Samuel.

[JerryNumbers]

No, God wants us to follow Him so He can bless us fully. However, when we fail to do so the Word tells us God sends punishments and cusings our way, and part of such comes through leaders. America turns her back upon Him so He can't give us what He truly wants, so we get what we deserve and this comes from Him as well.

"And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:" Daniel 2:21

John, I see some disagree with you on this verse, yet I must say many commentaries aggress with you.


John, Here is some more verses on the subject and they seemly suggest that it is God who set up rulers, not man.

Da 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

Pr 8:15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
Pr 8:16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

1Sa 9:17 And when Samuel saw Saul, the LORD said unto him, Behold the man whom I spake to thee of! this same shall reign over my people.

1Ch 28:5 And of all my sons, (for the LORD hath given me many sons,) he hath chosen Solomon my son to sit upon the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel.

Jer 27:6 And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.

Ro 13:1 ¶ Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Edited February 23, 2011 by Jerry80871852