DOES JESUS RESPECT ISLAM?

[Annie]

How can God call a believer to a specific career or field of service if He doesn't speak to us?

God can't speak anything to any of us that contradicts Scripture. For example, if someone says God told them to attend an unbiblical church or to divorce their spouse so they can be with another or that it's not a sin for them to be a homosexual, we know such isn't from God.

Thus far, I've never met or even known of a true pastor who wasn't called by God into the ministry.

I take everything to God in prayer and Scripture says if we pray, God will answer us. I've had God speak to me through His Word, through others and directly through His Spirit.

I see nothing in Scripture that says God won't speak to us and from personal experience I know He speaks to me.

So, are you saying that what God tells you is on the same level as inspired Scripture? (IOW that you and the "others" through whom God speaks to you are prophets who are receiving unquestionable, direct, extrabiblical revelation from God?) How could it be anything else? How do you know it is God speaking to you, and it is not just thoughts of your own? Are you then a noncessationist? I've never had God "tell me" anything except through his Word. Has he directed my paths? Sure. Has he given me wisdom when I've asked for it? Sure. But he has never "spoken" to me other than through his Word (that I know of, anyway). I don't see any biblical support for the idea that he speaks to us outside his Word. I'm not sure about the "call" to ministry...He does say that he will give us the desires of our hearts (IOW, put the right desires in our hearts), direct our paths, order our steps, etc. I have never heard or felt a "call" from God to be in full-time ministry, but here I am, happily married to a preacher. Is the idea of a "call" (as in direct speech from God to a man's heart) present in Scripture...and if it is, was it just for apostolic times? I'm asking because I don't know. I hesitate to accept anything not found in Scripture...and I really hesitate to say that God speaks outside his Word to us, since that would be extrabiblical revelation.

Are we just talking off-topic semantics here? Could you apply what you've said to the article? Do you think it is really possible that God "told" this man to have an International Burn the Koran Day? Edited September 17, 2010 by Annie

[JerryNumbers]

No, God does not speak to us, yet we do have the Holy Spirit within us, and its trying to, teach, guide, the believe to do what is right, and of course the Holy Spirit puts the desire in the heart of some men to be His preachers and pastors.

Speaking to us would be new revelations, and you know what the Bible says about adding to or taking away.

[John81]

God speaks to us through His Spirit which resides in us. The two must be in agreement and there can be no contradiction with the Word. Nothing "new" is said. If I pray to God about an issue He is faithful to answer if I listen.

Perhaps I'm not being clear. I'm not talking of hearing from God as some TV preachers might where they claim God gives them some new revelation or they hear God talking to them in an audible voice as they talk back and forth.

[1Timothy115]

Divine realization has not ended with the end to canon. If what we pray about is in line with God's Word, and the opportunity we are leaning toward is in agreement with God's Word then, I believe those impressions during prayer can very much be the leading of God through the Spirit. If God places a burden on the heart of a pastor, right or wrong in our eyes, that is between God and that pastor.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Islam is an anti-Christ, there can be no denying that. However, the Muslims are the misled by the "religion" of Islam, they are lost. Burning a Quran just gives them an excuse to be righteous in their own eyes and turn off the witness of a Christian. I don't believe God is leading me to burn Qurans, but I don't deny He could use Pastor Jones to shake and wake Christians to action and to decide where they stand. This nation needs a good shaking and particularly we Christians. Maybe we need to sieze greater opportunity to take the Gospel of Jesus Christ to Muslims. If Pastor Jones actions were of God then, I doubt it was pointed toward the Muslims but toward the Christians.

[Annie]

Nothing "new" is said...Perhaps I'm not being clear. I'm not talking of hearing from God as some TV preachers might where they claim God gives them some new revelation or they hear God talking to them in an audible voice as they talk back and forth.

So, then (to get back on topic), you don't believe that God could have told Pastor Jones to have an International Burn the Koran Day. You disagree with the author of this article. Am I right?

[John81]

So, then (to get back on topic), you don't believe that God could have told Pastor Jones to have an International Burn the Koran Day. You disagree with the author of this article. Am I right?

The point of the article wasn't that sarcastic dig he put in so I'm not sure why we are focused on that, but I will answer your question.

I don't know anything about this pastor. From what I've read this man's wife is also a pastor at his church. Based upon this alone, I would suggest he's not likely hearing from God on such matters. He's allowing his wife to go against the clear Word of God which says only men are to be pastors. This also means his marriage is not in proper accord with the Word of God because he's not properly leading his wife. If he's not willing to heed the Word of God on these matters, and if he's a true biblical Christian we know God has tried to reach him on this, God's not likely to be speaking to him upon these other matters since he's already closed his ears to God.

[Annie]

The point of the article wasn't that sarcastic dig he put in so I'm not sure why we are focused on that, but I will answer your question.

We are focused on it because, after all of the OBjections to the article that I posted, this was your entire reply:

Doesn't God speak to His children? I'm not talking about an audible, "Hi Fred, it's God and you need to....". Does not God speak to us through His Spirit residing in us? Does not God speak to us through the Word?

And, what the author said about this was not a sarcastic dig; it was a serious point he was trying to make:

Let me ask you a troubling question that perhaps you haven’t had the courage to ask yourself.

What if God really did tell Pastor Jones to burn the Quran?

You appear to be saying that you believe God "tells" people to do things, like burn the Koran, or run for President. Pastor Jones' personal life and beliefs aside, do you believe that God gives extrabiblical commands directly to people in this manner?

What part of the article do you agree with? What do you think of the OBjections I posted? Does Pastor Jones represent the kind of Christianity that you follow? Do you think that the positive reference to Randall Terry should tip us off that this article's author is radical? Do you believe that "there is a direct connection to the Ground Zero mosque and the White House's attempt to show us how intolerant Christianity is"?

In this article, I see a man who supports men like Pastor Jones and radical Randall Terry, who advance the Christian cause through destructive, incendiary, violent and/or illegal acts. I see a conspiracy theorist. A man who fails to define what he means by respect and tolerance, and uses the ambiguity of those terms to spin some pretty heated rhetoric that produces a lot of heat but sheds precious little light. Jesus was not displaying "intolerance" (in the way this man says he was) when he said that he is the only way to heaven. No, Christians do not have to "respect" Islam itself, but we must respect the Scriptures (which instruct us about these things), Christ's example (as found in the Scripture) and ethics (which inform us how to treat others in general). Above all, we must follow the admonition of Christ himself: "as ye would that others do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Burning a Koran isn't going to get anybody anywhere but in trouble. It's not going to advance the cause of Christ; it's not going to bring glory to God or reflect well on his name or his people; and it's not going to reach anybody for the kingdom. Edited September 17, 2010 by Annie

[ThomasCooper]

Burning a Koran isn't going to get anybody anywhere but in trouble. It's not going to advance the cause of Christ; it's not going to bring glory to God or reflect well on his name or his people; and it's not going to reach anybody for the kingdom.

Burning the Koran indeed WILL advance the cause of Christ! We need to make such burnings of this filthy writ a routine occurrence. That way the Mooslims will see that to us their book of the devil means nothing. Eventually they themselves will stop venerating it seeing how after repeating burnings we are only getting stronger and stronger and their silly threats and riots mean nothing to us, except make us laugh at how primitive they are. It would be just a small battle, but it is one that we must win in order to win the war against this particular brand of satanism.

[John81]

Yes, God calls specific people to the pastorate and leads His children in the direction they should go.

[John81]

Burning the Koran indeed WILL advance the cause of Christ! We need to make such burnings of this filthy writ a routine occurrence. That way the Mooslims will see that to us their book of the devil means nothing. Eventually they themselves will stop venerating it seeing how after repeating burnings we are only getting stronger and stronger and their silly threats and riots mean nothing to us, except make us laugh at how primitive they are. It would be just a small battle, but it is one that we must win in order to win the war against this particular brand of satanism.

If America were a Christian nation such might make sense. However, America is not a Christian nation. America is a nation where all false religions are welcomed and protected by law. Worse, in many cases the false religions get special treatment.

Muslims are allowed by law to live here and serve their false god and they are allowed to immigrate here and promote their false religion even while they work against biblical Christianity.

America today is filled with false religionists, unsaved professing Christians and liberals abound, all of which willingly yoke together to fight against biblical Christians.

Mass burnings of the koran today would result in full force media attacks and demonization of Christians, "hate crime" and other laws would be activated or twisted to give police agencies an open door to arrest and persecute true Christians and the Feds would step in with further force.

The unsaved professing Christians and even a number of weak Christians would rally behind the media, government and false religionists in denouncing the "extremist Christians".

There are better ways right now to go about confronting the false religion of Islam even though they are trying to make it a crime to witness to Muslims.

[Seth Doty]

Pastor Jones' personal life and beliefs aside, do you believe that God gives extrabiblical commands directly to people in this manner?

Yes, most definitely. The closer a person is to God the more likely they are to receive such direction. However it will never contradict scripture, and there are many people deceived into thinking they have heard from God when no such thing has occurred(1 John 4:1).


Isaiah 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

[John81]

Yes, most definitely. The closer a person is to God the more likely they are to receive such direction. However it will never contradict scripture, and there are many people deceived into thinking they have heard from God when no such thing has occurred(1 John 4:1).


Isaiah 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

[JerryNumbers]

Burning the Koran indeed WILL advance the cause of Christ! We need to make such burnings of this filthy writ a routine occurrence. That way the Mooslims will see that to us their book of the devil means nothing. Eventually they themselves will stop venerating it seeing how after repeating burnings we are only getting stronger and stronger and their silly threats and riots mean nothing to us, except make us laugh at how primitive they are. It would be just a small battle, but it is one that we must win in order to win the war against this particular brand of satanism.

Burning the Koran, will that make you the same as the RCC that persecuted the real Christians, taking their Bibles and burning them at times, and even burning our brothers and sisters in Christ at times?

Can we not stand against false religion in a manner without provoking them to wrath?

There be many things we are free to do, yet does that mean we should?


Ro 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Ro 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Ro 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

Come to think of it, burning the Koran will not really edify no one, yet it may give the opportunity for someone to talk evil against you.

[Annie]

John, suffice it to say that we disagree on this point. (Isaiah 30:21 is speaking to Israel about how God will bless Israel, not the church...verse 19 says that the people this passage is talking about will dwell in Zion at Jerusalem. I suppose some could intepret this as talking about heaven or the millennium (see vv. 25-26), but those interpretations still wouldn't lead to what Seth says here.) None of us live in Zion at Jerusalem, so why would we expect that this passage is somehow talking about us?

I feel like I've done a lot of the talking here, and I'd be interested in hearing what you liked about this article, and/or what you think about the other OBjections I posted. Edited September 18, 2010 by Annie

[lettheredeemedsayso]

Philip respected the Ethopian eunich. He gave us an example of how we should approach others who are not believers in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Edited September 20, 2010 by lettheredeemedsayso