Are there two wills in God?

[John81]

What is a monergist? Or a synergist? I found these definitions on a website.........

True; the Holy Spirit but also the Word of God are the only "efficient agents" in regeneration. True; the human will possesses no "inclination to holiness" until regenerated. True' the human will cannot "cooperate in regeneration". However; the human will can OBey God and repent.




Ok, I disagree with this too because the Bible says that God has given to every man the measure of faith. We all have faith in someone or something. Just like God gave you breath and a heartbeat, He also gave you the ability to beleive; He gave you the ability to have "faith". Man does not produce his own faith.; he simply exercises the faith and his ability to choose, given to all men by God. Man also does not have an "inclination toward holiness". Synergism and Monergism, as defined above, are false. I reject them both.

This is the correct Bible concept of how man's will works...
Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

The "life" btw, is Jesus Christ.
It's really quite simple. God sets before you life and death, blessing or cursing, Heaven or a horrible torment in Hell. Which one do you want? Do you have a FEAR of Almighty God or not? Fear of God is the beginning, my friend. Man's "will" is not "holy" or meritorious in any way. To put it bluntly, God says "choose Jesus and I will bless you" "Choose self and I will kill you". Is it an "inclination toward holiness" that would make an individual fall down like a dog before a thrice Holy God and choose life? No sir, I would say that it's an entirely SELFISH act to do so. Does this help explain the role of man's will better for you?

Ok, one of God's wills, is that none should perish and that all should come to repentence (2 Peter 3:9). Do you fear Him enough to OBey His Holy demand, or will you choose to ignore and reject Him? This will, is not going to be realized and God is not going to get what He wants.

Another of God's wills is that His Word shall not "return unto Him void". Many shall be saved, His Kingdom shall be established, and there shall be peace and joy in the Holy Ghost for ever and ever.

Good post. Unfortunately many professing Christians, including pastors, today claim it's wrong to try and "scare someone into heaven". They believe it's wrong to talk about hell, eternal damnation, gnashing of teeth, fire and brimstone. They say if one turns to Christ out of fear of hell then their salvation is suspect at best and prOBably not real.

History teaches otherwise as does my own testimony. I know fear was indeed a factor. The first time I heard of the Rapture, the end times, and that all those not born again in Christ would spend eternity in hell, I was afraid and there was a strong compulsion to embrace Christ.

[anime4christ]

There are a few flavors of monergism, though I wouldn't say the Lutheran modified version is true monergism. There are many different flavors of synergism however. Basically, monergism says that regeneration is only accomplished with God's will and the human will does not play a part in it. Synergism says that the human will does play a role in regeneration - man can choose whether to repent or not to apart from God's effectual calling (effectively removing the concept of the effectual calling completely). Lutheranism believes in a monergism where man can resist God and not be regenerated, which effectively gives man a choice in regeneration and therefore isn't true monergism.

[heartstrings]

There are a few flavors of monergism, though I wouldn't say the Lutheran modified version is true monergism. There are many different flavors of synergism however. Basically, monergism says that regeneration is only accomplished with God's will and the human will does not play a part in it. Synergism says that the human will does play a role in regeneration - man can choose whether to repent or not to apart from God's effectual calling (effectively removing the concept of the effectual calling completely). Lutheranism believes in a monergism where man can resist God and not be regenerated, which effectively gives man a choice in regeneration and therefore isn't true monergism.

According to those definitions, they're still both wrong.

[anime4christ]

Uh.. either man has a choice in regeneration or man doesn't, there is no other option. The mon in monergism comes from mono - one. The syn from synergism is talking about together - cooperation. There is nothing else besides those two choices. Either man has the effective choice (rather than God) and therefore cooperates in regeneration (synergism) or he doesn't (monergism).

[heartstrings]

There are a few flavors of monergism, though I wouldn't say the Lutheran modified version is true monergism. There are many different flavors of synergism however. Basically, monergism says that regeneration is only accomplished with God's will and the human will does not play a part in it. Synergism says that the human will does play a role in regeneration - man can choose whether to repent or not to apart from God's effectual calling (effectively removing the concept of the effectual calling completely). Lutheranism believes in a monergism where man can resist God and not be regenerated, which effectively gives man a choice in regeneration and therefore isn't true monergism.

Please define "effectual calling"
Then please read my post above where I explained the role of man's will. We do not just decide to choose God apart from the calling of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

[anime4christ]

The effectual calling is the calling which creates what it commands. It is the call which is irresistible. The general calling is the one that is for everyone and is resistible (which is always resisted by man without the effectual calling).

In summary, synergism rejects the above and believes in only the general calling which is not always resisted by man's will, giving man cooperation in regeneration.

[Yankee Candle]

God has three wills.

The good.
The acceptable.
The perfect.

Romans 12:1

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Like the changing of the gears in an automatic transmission so is God's will depending on the circumstances.

Best wishes to all.

[anime4christ]

First of all, this thread is about the article in the first post. Please read it before discussing here.

Second, you just totally read that into the verse. Those are just three adjectives describing the will of God. God does not have a will with a transmission. That is absolutely not biblical at all. God's will is immutable and is not changed by circumstances. How can you give yourself such liberty with God's word? We are to let the Bible speak for itself and not just think about what it might be saying to us. We are to look for God's intent, not our opinion in His word.

[Yankee Candle]

First of all, this thread is about the article in the first post. Please read it before discussing here.

Second, you just totally read that into the verse. Those are just three adjectives describing the will of God. God does not have a will with a transmission. That is absolutely not biblical at all. God's will is immutable and is not changed by circumstances. How can you give yourself such liberty with God's word? We are to let the Bible speak for itself and not just think about what it might be saying to us. We are to look for God's intent, not our opinion in His word.

Well I don't wish to argue with you, dear lady but the Holy Spirit tells me/us and other Christians that there are three aspects to His will: that which is good...the choice between things that does not involve evil (ex: jOBs, homes, vocations, etc), next, that which is acceptable -- those things that are quite all right but there could be a better choice. Then His perfect will --not only the best of all possibilites but that which WILL happen and honor God.

It's pretty OBvious to me.

Best wishes.

[trc123]

Well I don't wish to argue with you, dear lady but the Holy Spirit tells me/us and other Christians that there are three aspects to His will: that which is good...the choice between things that does not involve evil (ex: jOBs, homes, vocations, etc), next, that which is acceptable -- those things that are quite all right but there could be a better choice. Then His perfect will --not only the best of all possibilites but that which WILL happen and honor God.

It's pretty OBvious to me.

Best wishes.

P.S. Are you certain "Anime" is a female?

[anime4christ]

Well I don't wish to argue with you, dear lady but the Holy Spirit tells me/us and other Christians that there are three aspects to His will: that which is good...the choice between things that does not involve evil (ex: jOBs, homes, vocations, etc), next, that which is acceptable -- those things that are quite all right but there could be a better choice. Then His perfect will --not only the best of all possibilites but that which WILL happen and honor God.

It's pretty OBvious to me.

Best wishes.

I'm a guy. lol. In that case, with your understanding, the good and the acceptable are part of God's revealed will and the perfect is His decretive will. I don't see that in the verse, but you're essentially saying the same thing the article in the original post is. I just don't see the "switching gears" anywhere in the Bible. Neither of God's wills is changed by circumstances, except in cases where people asked God for a compromise (eg. Ezekiel asked God to use cow dung instead of human feces to bake the bread).

[heartstrings]

Anime,
In today's English, we use the word "want".
"I want Anime to abandon his Calvinistic doctrine but he does not want to."
In the language of the KIng James Bible, that would read more like: "I would that Anime.....but he would not". "Would" is one of the forms of the word "will".

God does not always get what he "wants" or "wills".......
Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen [doth gather] her brood under [her] wings, and ye would not!

Edited October 3, 2010 by heartstrings

[anime4christ]

Anime,
In today's English, we use the word "want".
"I want Anime to abandon his Calvinistic doctrine but he does not want to."
In the language of the KIng James Bible, that would read more like: "I would that Anime.....but he would not". "Would" is one of the forms of the word "will".

God does not always get what he "wants" or "wills".......
Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen [doth gather] her brood under [her] wings, and ye would not!

Yes, that is God's revealed will.

[JerryNumbers]

First of all, this thread is about the article in the first post. Please read it before discussing here.

Second, you just totally read that into the verse. Those are just three adjectives describing the will of God. God does not have a will with a transmission. That is absolutely not biblical at all. God's will is immutable and is not changed by circumstances. How can you give yourself such liberty with God's word? We are to let the Bible speak for itself and not just think about what it might be saying to us. We are to look for God's intent, not our opinion in His word.

I agree.

[Yankee Candle]

I'm a guy. lol. In that case, with your understanding, the good and the acceptable are part of God's revealed will and the perfect is His decretive will. I don't see that in the verse, but you're essentially saying the same thing the article in the original post is. I just don't see the "switching gears" anywhere in the Bible. Neither of God's wills is changed by circumstances, except in cases where people asked God for a compromise (eg. Ezekiel asked God to use cow dung instead of human feces to bake the bread).

Sorry, fella. My mistake about your gender.

I appreciate your reply.

Best wishes.