Do you believe.....

[Guest Guest]

[quote]I personally suspect that the behemoth could also fit the description of a hippopotamus or elephant and the leviathan could have been a crocodile. Hippos were indigenous to the area of palestine in ancient times. crocs were there into historic times and both species grow to enormous size. The fact is, things like elephants, hippos, whales and crocs did exist at the time of Job's writing while it's very doubtful that dinos did. Jonah was swallowed by a "great fish" and Genesis mentions "great whales"; we can put the name with the creature. But in hundreds of years of Jewish history, you would think SOMEONE in the Bible would have mentioned the eye popping experience of seeing a big crocodile, yet that creature is not mentioned in the Bible. Hmmmm, maybe it is.
[/quote]

I would have to disagree with you there, there is no way the behemoth or particular leviathan described in Job would fit any known living animal today. Neither would the "fiery flying serpent" Isaiah mentions twice in passing.

[Guest Guest]

Annie said:

Regarding dinosaurs...I'm curious about what Seth and other skeptics think those HUUUUUUUGE fossils are....We can talk all day about indeterminate growth, but the evidence undeniably points to the undeniable existence of super-big living creatures. [b]The book of Job speaks of leviathan and other monsters. If these bones aren't reptile/lizard/dinosaur bones, then what are they?[/b]

[b]Highlighted Area:[/b] Now, I am remembering the scriptures. Thanks, Annie for the reference to the Book of Job. :thumb

[quote="Seth Doty"]The dinosaur bones we find are exactly that. The bones of often(of course not always) huge now extinct creatures. I strongly suspect that the "behemoth" in Job 40 is indeed speaking of some type of now extinct dinosaur, it fits that very well as do some of the biblical references to leviathans. I am not arguing that dinosaurs never existed, nor am I arguing they existed and died out "millions of years ago", I am just saying they are not simply big lizards that grew that big because of the pre-flood climate and long life. [b]We really don't know why they all died out. All we can do is guess. [/b]They came in many sizes from very small and harmless to very large so that certainly isn't the sole issue, but the fact remains that as far as we know there are no living species of dinosaurs for one reason or another.[/quote]

[b]Highlighted Area: [/b] This is exactly what my first IFB pastor said.

[quote="Jerry80871852"]Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. [/quote]

:amen: :goodpost: Thanks for the scripture reference, Pastor Jerry.

[quote="Jerry80871852"]Deu 3:11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man. [/quote]

:amen: :goodpost:

[quote="Jerry80871852"]I don't know if the dinosaur was an over grown lizard of not, but it sure could have been, they do have some common traits. [b]But for the dinosaur to have come from the lizard fits much better that what the evolutionist comes up with who try their best to prove that God was not in the equation.[/b][/quote]

This is something to ponder. :-)

[Guest Guest]

[quote="Crushmaster"]Many of the "sightings", also, could involve drugs or alchohol - who knows?[/quote]

I believe that to be true, Crushmaster. :-) IMHO.

[trc123]

[quote="candlelight"][quote="Crushmaster"]Many of the "sightings", also, could involve drugs or alchohol - who knows?[/quote]

I believe that to be true, Crushmaster. :-) IMHO.[/quote]

There seems to be a lot of documented and sworn to evidence coming out of the military's records recently, none of which involves any drugs or alcohol and in fact have to do with Roswell and other activities.....much of which were seen by fairly high level officers (Colonels).

Not that I'm decided one way or the other and I tend to believe angelic and demonic activity could be the most plausible explanation. With that said, I'm not telling God what he can and can not create and do in eternity past or future. When think about Him, God is awesome and all in compassing I marvel we are able to understand even 1% of his ways. Read the Old Testament and quiver where you stand, believe on Christ and rest in His grace and love.

[Guest Guest]

My evangelist friend gave this book to me a several years ago. I have yet to read it. :wink Has anyone heard or read this book?

[u][b]THE EVOLUTION CRUNCHER[/b][/u] by Vince Ferrel. Scientific facts which annihilate evolutionary theory. EF--Evolution Facts, Inc.

EF---741
The Evolution Cruncher
by Vince Farrell, B.A., M.A.
Published by Evolution Facts, Inc.
Box 300, Altamont, TN 37301 USA
Printed in the United States of America
Cover and Text Copyright 2001

evolution-facts.org// 931-692-5777
waymarks@blomand.net

[Guest Guest]

[quote="trc123"][quote="candlelight"][quote="Crushmaster"]Many of the "sightings", also, could involve drugs or alchohol - who knows?[/quote]

I believe that to be true, Crushmaster. :-) IMHO.[/quote]

There seems to be a lot of documented and sworn to evidence coming out of the military's records recently, none of which involves any drugs or alcohol and in fact have to do with Roswell and other activities.....much of which were seen by fairly high level officers (Colonels).

Not that I'm decided one way or the other and I tend to believe angelic and demonic activity could be the most plausible explanation. With that said, I'm not telling God what he can and can not create and do in eternity past or future. When think about Him, God is awesome and all in compassing I marvel we are able to understand even 1% of his ways. Read the Old Testament and quiver where you stand, believe on Christ and rest in His grace and love.[/quote]

I am just going by some Christians "personal" testimonies around here. That is all. :smile

[Guest Guest]

[quote="candlelight"]EF---741
The Evolution Cruncher
by Vince Farrell, B.A., M.A.
Published by Evolution Facts, Inc.
Box 300, Altamont, TN 37301 USA
Printed in the United States of America
Cover and Text Copyright 2001

evolution-facts.org// 931-692-5777
waymarks@blomand.net[/quote]

Hmmm? Interesting site. I think.

www.evolution-facts.org

[heartstrings]

[quote="Seth Doty"][quote]I personally suspect that the behemoth could also fit the description of a hippopotamus or elephant and the leviathan could have been a crocodile. Hippos were indigenous to the area of palestine in ancient times. crocs were there into historic times and both species grow to enormous size. The fact is, things like elephants, hippos, whales and crocs did exist at the time of Job's writing while it's very doubtful that dinos did. Jonah was swallowed by a "great fish" and Genesis mentions "great whales"; we can put the name with the creature. But in hundreds of years of Jewish history, you would think SOMEONE in the Bible would have mentioned the eye popping experience of seeing a big crocodile, yet that creature is not mentioned in the Bible. Hmmmm, maybe it is.
[/quote]

I would have to disagree with you there, there is no way the behemoth or particular leviathan described in Job would fit any known living animal today. Neither would the "fiery flying serpent" Isaiah mentions twice in passing.[/quote]


Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
[color=#0040FF]A hippo eats grass like an ox.[/color]

Job 40:16 Lo now, his strength [is] in his loins, and his force [is] in the navel of his belly.
[color=#0040FF]A hippo is a very stout animal; alot of "loin strength" there[/color]

Job 40:17 He [u]moveth[/u] his tail [u]like[/u] a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

[color=#0040FF]It does NOT say his tail is as BIG as a cedar it says it MOVES LIKE a cedar....... And would a reptilian dinosaur have external testicles?[/color]


Job 40:18 His bones [are as] strong pieces of brass; his bones [are] like bars of iron.
[color=#0040FF]Being very powerful bulky animal weighing a few TONS....a hippopotamus has some very massive bones.[/color]

Job 40:19 He [is] the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach [unto him].
[color=#0080FF]?[/color]


Job 40:20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

[color=#0040FF]Hippos come out of the water at night and travel considerable distances inland, to browse and graze; they also occasionally eat meat.[/color]

Job 40:21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the [u]reed[/u], and fens.
[color=#0040FF]Reeds live near or in water; so do hippos[/color]


Job 40:22 The shady trees cover him [with] their shadow; the [color=#0040FF]willows of the brook [/color]compass him about.
[color=#0040FF]Willows are trees that live close to water....the hippo's hangout[/color]


Job 40:23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, [and] hasteth not: he [u]trusteth[/u] that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
[color=#0040FF]Not even the largest dinosaur ever discovered could drink the whole river Jordan. It's either figurative....or simply saying that as this animal is in the process of guzzling water from the river, he "trusts" in it's own ability to drink it all up.[/color]


Job 40:24 He taketh it with his eyes: [his] nose pierceth through snares. [color=#0040FF]Would a T-Rex or apatosaurus standing with its head a two or three stories above gound level, feel the need to "pierce" a puny snare with his nose or would he simply stomp over it and keep on truckin"?? A hippo is relatively low to the ground so he might have to crash his way through a snare.[/color]

[John81]

[quote="trc123"][quote="candlelight"][quote="Crushmaster"]Many of the "sightings", also, could involve drugs or alchohol - who knows?[/quote]

I believe that to be true, Crushmaster. :-) IMHO.[/quote]

There seems to be a lot of documented and sworn to evidence coming out of the military's records recently, none of which involves any drugs or alcohol and in fact have to do with Roswell and other activities.....much of which were seen by fairly high level officers (Colonels).

Not that I'm decided one way or the other and I tend to believe angelic and demonic activity could be the most plausible explanation. With that said, I'm not telling God what he can and can not create and do in eternity past or future. When think about Him, God is awesome and all in compassing I marvel we are able to understand even 1% of his ways. Read the Old Testament and quiver where you stand, believe on Christ and rest in His grace and love.[/quote]

You might want to read the book, "Alien Intrusion".

[Guest Guest]

[quote="candlelight"][quote="trc123"][quote="candlelight"][quote="Crushmaster"]Many of the "sightings", also, could involve drugs or alchohol - who knows?[/quote]

I believe that to be true, Crushmaster. :-) IMHO.[/quote]

There seems to be a lot of documented and sworn to evidence coming out of the military's records recently, none of which involves any drugs or alcohol and in fact have to do with Roswell and other activities.....much of which were seen by fairly high level officers (Colonels).

Not that I'm decided one way or the other and [b]I tend to believe angelic and demonic activity[/b] could be the most plausible explanation. With that said, I'm not telling God what he can and can not create and do in eternity past or future. When think about Him, God is awesome and all in compassing I marvel we are able to understand even 1% of his ways. Read the Old Testament and quiver where you stand, believe on Christ and rest in His grace and love.[/quote]

I am just going by some Christians "personal" testimonies around here. That is all. :smile[/quote]
[b]
Highlighted Area:[/b] A great book that I read years ago, by Dr. Billy Graham---when he was, Billy Graham. :-) I would recommend this book to anyone who has not read it, yet.

[b]BILLY GRAHAM[/b]
[b]ANGELS[/b]
[i]ANGELS: GOD'S SECRET AGENTS[/i]...Copyright 1975.
Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data
Graham, Billy, 1918-
Printed in the United States of America

[b]Publisher's Preface:[/b] Paragraph 2...ix, x

"When this momentous work was first published in 1975, there was almost nothing in print on the subject of angels. True, there were many works on the occult, on mysticism, and even on devil worship. In the age of Charles Manson, many people were coming to believe in the reality of evil in the world. But the same people who were fascinated by movies such as [i]The Exorcist[/i] or [i]Rosemary's Baby[/i] apparently associated the whole subject of angels with fairy tales and fables. Even people with strong religious convictions weren't sure if angels even existed."

[b]On the front flap: [/b]

"SOMEHOW IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN easier for people to believe in demons than in the brighter side of the unseen world---the world of God's protecting angels. Yet "angels have a much more important place in the Bible than the devil and his demons," says Dr. Billy Graham in this best-selling classic."

[b]Psalm 91:11[/b]...For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. [b]KJV 1611 AV.[/b]

[pneu-engine]

[quote="IM4given"]Amen PE - Preach it Brother :amen: :goodpost: These babies need to hear the MEAT of the Word - let's hope they have not bitten off more than they can chew!!![/quote]
Thanky most kindly, IM4G.. :Green

[Guest Guest]

[quote]Job 40:17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

It does NOT say his tail is as BIG as a cedar it says it MOVES LIKE a cedar....... And would a reptilian dinosaur have external testicles?[/quote]

Your right that it says his tail it moves like a cedar and that it doesn't say that it is as big as a cedar, but if it is speaking about a hippos tail what is the point of mentioning it at all? The point of this whole description is to show Job how mighty God is compared to him. A hippos tail probably isn't the best way to do that. A hippos teeth are far more impressive than his tail, why not mention those instead? As for the description of the sinews of his "stones" being wrapped together, I don't know exactly what that is talking about but it sounds quite "different" to say the least. There is nothing special about a hippos stones, they are quite normal...

[quote][color=#0000FF]"Job 40:19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him."[/color][/quote]

The implication here is that Job could not really kill him if he tried. People have killed hippos with spears as far back as our recorded(non-biblical) history goes. If I recall correctly one of the very first recorded Pharoahs of egypt was killed on a hippo hunt that went bad. Secondly, why would God himself describe this creature as "chief of the ways of God"? There are so many other now extinct animals(or currently living ones like whales) that dwarf a hippo it would seem quite unreasonable to call a hippo "chief of the ways of God" for any reason. As far as the whole of Gods creation goes for being impressive, hippos are a long way down the list.


[quote]Job 40:24 He taketh it with his eyes: [his] nose pierceth through snares. Would a T-Rex or apatosaurus standing with its head a two or three stories above gound level, feel the need to "pierce" a puny snare with his nose or would he simply stomp over it and keep on truckin"?? A hippo is relatively low to the ground so he might have to crash his way through a snare.[/quote]

Hippos are commonly taken in snares in africa by poachers today. Granted snare materials are probably better now than then, but I believe it would be quite possible to build a snare that would hold a hippo using all natural materials too.

[url]http://www.ml.duke.edu/projects/hippos/Conservation.html[/url]
[url]http://gorilla.cd/2008/03/04/snaring-hippos-smoking-their-meat/[/url]

First link shows a neck snared hippo and second link shows hippo foot snares.

[Anon]

I see it as it ONLY takes his nose to pierce through a snare...rather than his whole body.

The descriptions in Job are quite literal. Though Bible commentaries may say "hippo" I don't believe it nor do I see it.

[pneu-engine]

[quote="futurehope"]...dinosaurs were, in fact, different species that are now extinct. Futurehope[/quote]
Therein lies a misconception, since they are not ALL extinct, albeit most of them are. I mentioned in an earlier post that in the Belgian Congo there are huge dinosaur-like reptilian lizards such that when the aborgines are shown a picture of a fully mature Diplodocus they will jump up and down and exclaim that they have seen that very animal. Kent Hovind proclaimed this very fact, and I heard him say it with my own ears.

A Diplodocus::::::::::

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6781/03diplodocus2vs9.jpg[/img][/url]

[Guest Guest]

[quote]Therein lies a misconception, since they are not ALL extinct, albeit most of them are. I mentioned in an earlier post that in the Belgian Congo there are huge dinosaur-like reptilian lizards such that when the aborgines are shown a picture of a fully mature Diplodocus they will jump up and down and exclaim that they have seen that very animal. Kent Hovind proclaimed this very fact, and I heard him say it with my own ears.[/quote]

Your speaking of mokele mbembe and while it is an interesting possibility, it is still a cryptid not a fact. If solid proof is ever obtained for science it would be great, but right now there isn't any more proof for mokele mbembe than there is for bigfoot although I consider mokele mbembe far more likely due to the habitat.