Helping the police respond...

[holster]

I'll tackle that one:

First let me say that we should not trust the gun for our safety, that is what the Lord is to be to us, our security, and our safe-haven. I do not load my guns, but only because I don't intend to use them. My kids are all grown and gone, and the grand kids don't even know I have any, and couldn't reach them if they did.

My son-in-law asked one time "is it worth killing a person over a bunch of stuff?" and that got me thinking...it is not worth it. If the Lord allows someone to break in and steal all I have, he won't get much anyway! I do, however, lock my doors, lest I tempt them too much!

An unloaded gun is still a threat if you have the nerve to use it; the burglar doesn't know it isn't loaded! I suppose though that a shot over his head would be sufficient enough to chase him off, if it comes to that. In the same neighborhood I wrote of, my wife was being harassed by someone (I worked nights at the time) knocking on th edoors, first one, and then the othewr. They were prOBably trying to get her to open the door. I set the Colt Python (an awesome gun) on an end table and tols her "Just blow the door off the hinges. they will not look back to see what your shooting at". She was afraid of guns herself, but I told her "just shoot the door, and stand back" and watch the fun! She never had to use it though, praise the Lord for that. Needless to say, we did not stay long in that neighborhood.

My guns are loaded and available.....
My carry guns always have a round in the chamber...

Though my state has a castle doctrine law I have firmed in my mind that I will NOT us force on anyone taking THINGS. My guns are for DEFENSIVE purposes only. I have very disctinct line drawn... You may take my TV, my computer, etc.. but threaten my life or my wife's life, or threaten serious injury... well... prepare to meet my wrath.

[holster]

That's assuming they have a gun! Most burglars don't, at least didn't used to. things seem to change rapidly nowadays though. Even those that have a gun most likely will not risk getting hurt themselves; they love to inflict pain or death, but when it comes their way, they are scared to death instead!

By the way, isn't it amazing that light will often deter them from their evil? Talk about children of darkness...

irishman... I respectfully say... If you get a nut breaking into your house at 3:00 am and he's high on drugs... he can kill you with his bear hands... he doesn't need a gun. If your gun is unloaded you may as well have a baseball bat in the corner. If that is your decision.. I respect that totally. Honest I do. But don't deceive yourself that an empty gun is gonna do anything. Use the bat. It has a further reach and more leverage.

[irishman]

I misrepresented my situation. I should have said... I make sure all "loose" and "boxed" ammo is boxed and under bed.

I was not including in that statement the shotgun shell belt (full) hanging on my bedpost nor the ammo in my "bedpost" handgun, nor the ammo in my carry gun (also close by the bed) nor the ammo in the .357 magnum on my wife's side of bed.

Hope that clears things up......

A gun without ammo is nothing more than a club...

Excuse me for saying so, but you seem to be awful fearful of someone breaking and and doing bodily harm to you or your wife. I only hope that the fear allows you to stick to your resolution that "things" are not that important when/if the time comes.

We all like to think we will do this or that, but it is different when you meet someone face-to-face; every man handles fear in a different way, and until we are tested, we really don't know what we will do. I don't know what I'd have done if I found that guy in my basement, but I shudder to think that I may have killed him just for walking into the wrong house.

banks have been rOBbed, and people have been deterred with unloaded guns. In fact, Black Bart, the infamous outlaw of the old west rOBbed many Wells Fargo stages with an unloaded shotgun! It seems no one cared to call his bluff.

[holster]

Excuse me for saying so, but you seem to be awful fearful of someone breaking and and doing bodily harm to you or your wife. I only hope that the fear allows you to stick to your resolution that "things" are not that important when/if the time comes.

We all like to think we will do this or that, but it is different when you meet someone face-to-face; every man handles fear in a different way, and until we are tested, we really don't know what we will do. I don't know what I'd have done if I found that guy in my basement, but I shudder to think that I may have killed him just for walking into the wrong house.

banks have been rOBbed, and people have been deterred with unloaded guns. In fact, Black Bart, the infamous outlaw of the old west rOBbed many Wells Fargo stages with an unloaded shotgun! It seems no one cared to call his bluff.

Your points are very good. In training videos (and others) I've seen a lot of people "freak out" and forget everything they learned. That is a true and legitimate point. I don't know what I will until the awful moment comes.

As said... I have purposed in my heart/head to ONLY use force to DEFEND against bodily harm when there is no other choice. This is how I train, both mentally and practically.

The thought of a crazy man coming in and abusing and/or killing my wife is alarming. I am fearful of truly EVIL people. But am I paranoid... no!

I've been in my current church for 14 months now. Most people don't even know I own a gun. Others have invited me to go hunting or target shooting. Only a select few know my views on self protection. My views primarily "come out" here as this forum is a "release" for me. A place to discuss/say things I can't discuss with others.

Last Saturday I ran into one of my members at the ammo case in my local Walmart.We were shocked to find each other there. We laughed and then went and had lunch together. We were both just "normal" people who have decided to protect self from evil people.

[Invicta]

I disagree. You are paranoid, But then, that is the US gun culture.

Some people we knew lived in a village called Buckland. Well village is a strong word. I only found two houses and a railway crossing with the name.

Anyway, one evening these people discovered an intruder in their house, locked him a room and called the police. Next morning the police arrived, saying that they could not find the place at night, but by that time the intruder had escaped.

[holster]

I disagree. You are paranoid, But then, that is the US gun culture.

You can make a diagnosis based on a few threads on a discussion board?

Do you have any insurance policies? Does that make you paranoid? No.. you are simply smart for planning for a tragedy though odds are you will never need the insurance policy.

[JerryNumbers]

You can make a diagnosis based on a few threads on a discussion board?

Do you have any insurance policies? Does that make you paranoid? No.. you are simply smart for planning for a tragedy though odds are you will never need the insurance policy.

I agree, an unloaded gun in your home is worthless for defense, both my 357 and 12 shot gun are loaded.

Ones home is one place I feel a person has the right to defend their self from anyone who is breaking in are has broken in.

For when someone breaks in your home they have evil on their mind, and there is no telling what they may do.

The bank teller at work, just hand them the money, the bank teller at home, shoot to kill the one who has broken in.

As for me, I fail to see why anyone would fault anyone in their own home defending their home. The one is a scared place.

As for Gregg, all I say is this.

[irishman]

So...you have guns for protection? That means you at least plan to use them (if necessary), I have guns because I like guns, not because I have to keep the boogey man away. One on the headboard? One on the wife's nightstand/ Another close at hand (in the bedroom) what if you are in the bathroom when someone breaks in? That sounds a bit parano9id to me!

Where does the promises of Psa. 91 fit in? (for those who dwell in the secret place of God)

Psa 91:3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
Psa 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
Psa 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
Psa 91:6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Psa 91:9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
Psa 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.


Just wondering if we trust our guns instead of trusting the Lord for our protection and security?

[Crushmaster]

Psa 91:3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
Psa 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
Psa 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
Psa 91:6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Psa 91:9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
Psa 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Just wondering if we trust our guns instead of trusting the Lord for our protection and security?

This is something we need to be careful about, whether it's about guns or other weapons or even our bank account. Weapons can fail us, money can fail us, people can fail us. The list could go on and on. But God is always faithful, and our trust, ultimately, must be in Him.

Just my thoughts.
God bless,
Joel.

[holster]

So...you have guns for protection? That means you at least plan to use them (if necessary), I have guns because I like guns, not because I have to keep the boogey man away. One on the headboard? One on the wife's nightstand/ Another close at hand (in the bedroom) what if you are in the bathroom when someone breaks in? That sounds a bit parano9id to me!

Where does the promises of Psa. 91 fit in? (for those who dwell in the secret place of God)

Psa 91:3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
Psa 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
Psa 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
Psa 91:6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Psa 91:9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
Psa 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.


Just wondering if we trust our guns instead of trusting the Lord for our protection and security?

Irishman.. you make me smile..... I'm "paranoid" for the second time and if I defend myself from my own death I don't trust Psalm 91. That's funny!

[Revelation3:20]

Where does the promises of Psa. 91 fit in? (for those who dwell in the secret place of God)

Psa 91:3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
Psa 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
Psa 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
Psa 91:6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Psa 91:9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
Psa 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Where does Psalms 91 fit in?

Consider Psalm 144:1-2.

"Psalm 144:1-2 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me."

David had no trouble trusting God but at the same time he fought when he need to.

Where does Exodus 22:2 fit in?

A man has a responsibility to protect his family to the best of his ability.

[irishman]

Holster, I do mean to be name-calling, that is rather something kids do, but What I meant is that it sounds as if you are "over-gunned". Wouldn't one loaded gun be enough? That makes you sound abnormally fearful.


By the way (and I have heard this, but cannot verify it as fact), I heard that in a court of law, you would need to prove that the burglar, even though he broke in to your house, meant you great bodily harm. Again, I don't know if it is true, but it sounds like what the judicial system might come up with these days; the law seems to give the criminal a lot of leeway. "The assumption that someone is a threat is not good enough, so they say. I am not anti-gun, in fact, I love guns (I love my black powder .44 cal. Lyman--made by Remington Arms), I was brought up with guns, but I respect them and value human life to the "nth" degree. The laws seem to be for the criminal, but that is another subject. Still, I don't feel I need to load my guns, I trust that the Lord is watching over our place, and I try to rely on Him for chasing away any evil, before it even gets that far (That is "What Psa. 91 has to do with it, BTW--trusting that No evil will come nigh thy dwelling, etc. (Not a direct quote)

A loaded gun shows "intent", and that was the point I tried to make.

(BTW, though I try to trust the Lord in that area as well as others, I do lock my doors!) No sense in tempting the Lord either!

My main point was not focusing on the gun for protection, but on the Lord. He wants to be everything we need Him to be, and we sometimes replace him with other things (Welfare can fit in this category too; I said "can", not that it always does, for those of you who are you skeptics; God wants to be our provider, and not have to choose between Him and the Gov't. When we take that away from Him, we create an idol that replaces Him in that area, how is that for a thought?)

[chev1958]

My main point was not focusing on the gun for protection, but on the Lord.

Didn't the Lord tell the disciples to arm themselves just before Judas betrayed Jesus (Luke 22)? It wasn't for Jesus' protection, because that would have thwarted God's plan. So, why did Jesus tell them to sell their garments and purchase swords? Maybe for their own protection?

Think about missionaries. God calls them to a work, and God clearly promises to provide. Yet missionaries go on deputation to gain support for the mission field. Using your thesis, then, they aren't trusting God to provide. What about medicine? God promises to heal us, yet we go to doctors when we get sick. Therefore, we must not be trusting God?

I certainly believe God's promises, but I also know He's provided us with common sense and tools to help us. I also believe there is pure evil in the world. If someone were to break into my house, I wouldn't take the time to ask what his intent is. I give him the opportunity to see what he's up against and then it's his decision what to do next.

My God-given responsibility is to provide for and to protect my family, and I'll use whatever tools God makes available to me to do just that.

[holster]

Thank you for your reply, let me try to explain...

Holster, I do mean to be name-calling, that is rather something kids do, but What I meant is that it sounds as if you are "over-gunned". Wouldn't one loaded gun be enough? That makes you sound abnormally fearful.

If your enjoyment comes from coin collecting do you collect one coin and stop? If you are a carpenter do you buy one hammer and stop? No, you have a trim hammer, claw hammer, sledge hammer, etc.

I enjoy guns. I enjoy the history of guns, the technology of guns, heck, I even love the smell of burned gunpowder.

Guns are a "normal" part of my life just as any other hOBby for someone else. Now, I happen to also believe in the U.S. Constitution and fact that as an American citizen I have the right to own guns. I also have the right (given by law) to defend myself.

So, having guns.. I have decided to use them to protect self, family, and other innocent people. I could not live with myself if I were eating in a restaurant one day and a crazy man drove his truck thru the window and started killing people who were doing nothing more than eating lunch with loved one. 23 INNOCENT PEOPLE DIE

Now.. I have several guns just because of my gun interest. But I also have "different" guns for different situations. In the winter when you have heavy clothing and a coat you can wear a bigger gun than in the summer. Lighter dress means lighter guns. Sometimes, I have only my "pocket" auto. This is for times when there will be people interaction and I might be hugged by an 80 year old grandmother.

So, it is as simple as a love of the sport, a decision to defend, and having several different tools to do that.

These concepts are taught by any GOOD trainer. TRAINED people who carry and own guns are not "lunatics" nor "paranoids". The "fringe" people are those who misuse guns, shoot a video, and put it on Facebook for the world to see. Doing this is not wise!

Do I have too many guns? NO! Wish I had more. I just bought a .270 rifle for deer and such. Since I have these tools I am going to have them AVAILABLE at night. When I am home, they do no good locked up in a safe. A safe keeps them from being stolen when I am away.

If I wake up and see some crazy person entering my room several options are always better than one option. When someone is ten feet away from you and coming strong, just try to get a gun... get cartridges... load it... and fire. -

That's not for me... I prefer my loaded and chambered bedpost gun with laser.

Finally... I totally respect anyone who chooses NOT to have guns or who chooses to have a gun and keep in unloaded. These are decisions the individual must make. If you have a loaded gun and you are not trained or confident in it's use then it being unloaded might be a good thing. But I still maintain that in that situation a ball bat might be best. I am being serious and not condescending.

Anyway... that's my situation.... Works for me.

[holster]

Let me also add this..

People say odds of having to defend self are not very high so it's silly to have a gun around.... yet these same people will install an alarm system in their home. They are planning for the rare case, aren't they? They also buy fire insurance though the odds of having fire are very small.

So why is the gun owner criticized for simply doing the same thing? I do nothing more than that. Plan for the thing that will prOBably never happen... The thing which I pray every day will NEVER happen....