HOW OLD IS THE EARTH?

[Old-Pilgrim]

The morning and the evening weer the first day

That is like a Catholic saying to you.. 'Take, eat: this is my body' why not just believe what the word says?

I guess you might say 'you have to carefully consider the context'

Clear as a bell!

 

whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2Pe 1:19 

[Invicta]

That is like a Catholic saying to you.. 'Take, eat: this is my body' why not just believe what the word says?

I guess you might say 'you have to carefully consider the context'

whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2Pe 1:19 

That is a silly argument.  Each of the seven had a evening and a morning.  0

[Old-Pilgrim]

That is a silly argument.  Each of the seven had a evening and a morning.  0

well if you are going to ignore the fact that the first three DAYS in record (Day= yome from an unused root meaning to be hot warmth) were under way including dusk and dawn and Warmth before our earthly sun was made, then it is silly.

Can't you just accept that there are things mentioned in Scripture of which we are not given allot of Detail, such as the sons of God and the morning stars singing in Joyful assembly before Adam was created, the priesthood of Melchisedec and any one of Gods Days, let alone all of His Heavens, or are you going to try dragging it all down to a scale with which you can relate.? It's a rhetorical question if you like!

[John81]

well if you are going to ignore the fact that the first three DAYS in record (Day= yome from an unused root meaning to be hot warmth) were under way including dusk and dawn and Warmth before our earthly sun was made, then it is silly.

Can't you just accept that there are things mentioned in Scripture of which we are not given allot of Detail, such as the sons of God and the morning stars singing in Joyful assembly before Adam was created, the priesthood of Melchisedec and any one of Gods Days, let alone all of His Heavens, or are you going to try dragging it all down to a scale with which you can relate.? It's a rhetorical question if you like!

Can't you just accept that God doesn't have to have the sun in place in order to have a literal 24 hour day in operation?

You are trying to create mystery where Scripture is very clear in what it says.

[Old-Pilgrim]

Can't you just accept that God doesn't have to have the sun in place in order to have a literal 24 hour day in operation?

But He did have light and when he divided it from darkness he called it WARM, or HOT.

If I was going to theorize about what the Light of verse 5 is, then I would probably go with the verse which Matt suggested (Posted Monday at 7:49 PM · Report post >>>> but Rev 21:23 indicates that it could have been God's glory<<<<< Re 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.) and guess that it is Christ, it would make sense that the universe which is made to glorify God would have the Sun in the Centre if the ‘Sun of righteousness’ is representative of the ‘Son of Righteousness’ this imagery would seem to make consistent sense.

Some of the verses below could lead into a debate or two about the nature of Christ and creation, and His eternal Sonship or not, but here is just a few scriptures about Christ as the SUN in order to give food for thought.
 
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

There was no reference in Genesis 1 to the creation of these ‘morning stars’ nor to these ‘sons of God’ and they are all there rejoicing as God is laying the foundation of the earth which we inhabit. How long had they been created for?

Pr 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pr 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pr 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Pr 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Pr 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pr 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Pr 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
Pr 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Pr 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Pr 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

This sounds like a longer period of time than a few days.

Ps 19:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Ps 19:2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
Ps 19:3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
Ps 19:4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
Ps 19:5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
Ps 19:6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

[John81]

God gives us clearly in His Word that each day was a 24 hour day, "And the evening and the morning were the first day"..."And the evening and the morning were the sixth day". From evening to morning is used as a literal reference to a literal 24 hour day during the entire creation from day 1 to day 6.

Why argue or speculate where the Word is so very clear? Such serves no good purpose.

[TheSword]

I'll say it one last time...

You can't conflate prophecy with historical narrative. "Day" in Gen 1 has always meant a regular day as we understand it not matter how much you try to read into it. Gen 1:5 gives a very clear description and delimiter for the definition of that day and how it was reckoned. That is how the original audience took it. That is how it has always been taken until people compromised with atheistic Darwinism. Those are facts you can't get around.

I'm out.

[TheSword]

I know I said I was out, but given the way this topic has gone, I thought this article would be a good read for anyone wondering why Genesis 1-11 should be read as history and not taken allegorically like poetry or prophecy:

http://creation.com/genesis-is-history

Out again.

[Ukulelemike]

Prov 8 is speaking of the wisdom of God, hence it is beyond time, being an attribute of God.

[Old-Pilgrim]

Prov 8 is speaking of the wisdom of God, hence it is beyond time, being an attribute of God.

Some think it is Christ, but some think it isn't because it was 'set up' and sounds like wisdom might have been created, but i could see how if it was Christ it could still make sense, IE in the beginning was the Word.. and the Word was God. But before God Spoke time was not. Once God spoke, 'let there be light' then Christ the wisdom of God was 'setup' as a sign and also would become the Son of God as opposed to the Word of God. I tend to think that beyond our time there will be an heavenly time which will be closer to eternity but sort of slower than our time, no I don't think I have a scripture for that.

[Old-Pilgrim]

http://creation.com/genesis-is-history

>>>Our ministry supports the authority of the Bible from the very first verse. However, some opponents of biblical (‘young earth’) creation also claim to believe in the authority of Scripture, but claim that Genesis 1–11 is poetry or allegory.  <<<

If I was going to claim that a portion of Scripture had some sort of poetic or rhythmic style to it I would not be claiming it to be untrue. I hope people can see that it is possible to put truth in poetry, or perhaps the truth just is poetic when understood correctly

[Ukulelemike]

Some think it is Christ, but some think it isn't because it was 'set up' and sounds like wisdom might have been created, but i could see how if it was Christ it could still make sense, IE in the beginning was the Word.. and the Word was God. But before God Spoke time was not. Once God spoke, 'let there be light' then Christ the wisdom of God was 'setup' as a sign and also would become the Son of God as opposed to the Word of God. I tend to think that beyond our time there will be an heavenly time which will be closer to eternity but sort of slower than our time, no I don't think I have a scripture for that.

I understand where you are coming from on this, but in a way that's perhaps a little dangerous. See, there is a feminist movement that worships Jesus as Sophia, the female version of Jesus, also associated with wisdom. Other verses in Proverbs speak of wisdom with a female personification, so it really can't be referring to Jesus. As well, Jesus was in the beginning WITH God, and indeed, IS God, so He wasn't set up, as it were.  But really, we are speaking on things that the Bible only hints at, in ways that we can't really get enough information and understanding as to be able to make a concrete doctrine out of.  I mean, if Jesus is the 'Word', the literal personification of the very mind of God, then when did He begin to exist in such a manner at to be considered a separate individual? I know that's a clumsy way of putting it, but I think I make my point. Really, as long as there has been God, there has been Jesus Christ-just not flesh until a body was prepared for Him. Some things are best left to just faith, I think. The secret things belong to God.

[Old-Pilgrim]

So your just going to change the meaning of day from one verse to the next when it fits your interpretation?

 

this is not dividing the word of God properly.

Hello Jordan, how finely can the word be divided? (Genesis 1 has got to be THE BOOK of Dividing. That Article which Matt has posted above goes carefully into the Hebrew and then just starts throwing in huge assumptions about time and our earth turning etc, things which are not in the text. But it is human to err.)

>My previous post was>>Ex 20:10 But the seventh day (This is obviously a 24 hour day) is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

    Ex 20:11 For in six days (this however looks more like the days of Gen 1) the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.<<<

>>You said>>>So your just going to change the meaning of day from one verse to the next when it fits your interpretation?

this is not dividing the word of God properly.<<<<<

I am not changing the meaning of the word, Day, as defined by Gen 1:5 it means a cycle of evening and morning; a Day. But as to the type of day being described would depend on what the light was and why it was cycled. We have a good idea what causes our day, it is the heat from our sun as our earth turns on its axis, as far as we can figure out. And this presumably is an illustration of Gods Day, which must be much more glorious than the image of it which he has given to us.

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

This Sun doesn’t rise every 24 hours, but we know for sure that just as surly as day follows night, the Sun of Righteousness SHALL arise! This would seem to be reminding us that even though there is much room for flexibility and variably within the plan and purposes of God, there is also an inevitability about certain events.

An interesting little detail which I noticed is as follows, there are two related words in Gen 1:1-15 which are translated as ‘light’ one of the words is the Root, and one is the Derivative, I think it is interesting that the Root word is used to describe the light which comes from our sun and moon, but the derivative is used to describe the original light in Genesis 1:3, this would seem to fit with the perspective of the text being taken from Moses stand point and Gods  use of our natural light being used to illustrate the Light of God in the spiritual reality to which Moses was looking forward to, but which we are now entered into by faith as born again sons.

Gen 1:3
Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
216. 'owr
Search for H216 in KJVSL
rwa 'owr ore
from 215; illumination or (concrete) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.):--bright, clear, + day, light (-ning), morning, sun.

See Hebrew 215

Gen 1:15
Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
215. 'owr
Search for H215 in KJVSL
rwa 'owr ore
a primitive root; to be (causative, make) luminous (literally and metaphorically):--X break of day, glorious, kindle, (be, en-, give, show) light (-en, -ened), set on fire, shine.

 

 

2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Edited July 9, 2015 by Old-Pilgrim
accuracy

[Old-Pilgrim]

I understand where you are coming from on this, but in a way that's perhaps a little dangerous. See, there is a feminist movement that worships Jesus as Sophia, the female version of Jesus, also associated with wisdom. Other verses in Proverbs speak of wisdom with a female personification, so it really can't be referring to Jesus. As well, Jesus was in the beginning WITH God, and indeed, IS God, so He wasn't set up, as it were.  But really, we are speaking on things that the Bible only hints at, in ways that we can't really get enough information and understanding as to be able to make a concrete doctrine out of.  I mean, if Jesus is the 'Word', the literal personification of the very mind of God, then when did He begin to exist in such a manner at to be considered a separate individual? I know that's a clumsy way of putting it, but I think I make my point. Really, as long as there has been God, there has been Jesus Christ-just not flesh until a body was prepared for Him. Some things are best left to just faith, I think. The secret things belong to God.

 

Ultimately it is by faith we understand these things, and I realize we need to be careful on assumptions such as ‘Wisdom is God the son’, and as you point out that Wisdom is female in some of the proverbs, So I do try not to be fixed on my understanding on such matters, I’ve never heard of Sophia Jesus but I’m not surprised there are such a wide and powerful feminist movement in the world and ‘church’, this is one reason which I would try to face up to the issues.

I think it is a gross distortion and utter blasphemy to refer to God as ‘she’, as ever more seem keen to do, how though do we to think about Scriptures such as:

‘O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Mt 23:37  and (coincidentally) Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved* upon the face of the waters.
*This same word is translated as ‘fluttereth’ in De 32:11

However we do not need to look to the metaphors of scripture to find the truth of God as concerning whether He is male or female, we are told clearly in Genesis chapter one. (coincidentally)
Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And we get a closer look in chapter two:

Ge 2:21-3 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

So God is Whole. Adam and Eve it would seem were somewhat dependent one on the other.

As far as The matter of the Trinity, I used to be stumbled at Scriptures such as Joh 14:28 …my Father is greater than I. Or Mr 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
But there are more than a few Scriptures about the Son becoming what he had to become in order to redeem mankind, such as
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh…
If the ‘word was made’ then change is a necessity.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us,
He was ‘made’, this means he must have changed,
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Isa 52:14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

I think this verse only makes sense if taken to mean from Glory to the cross.

It is not possible to know God fully but our developing understanding should keep all scriptures in mind, I think Christ the Word while in The bosom of the Father would have been truly in Eternity and Gory, and only to know all and be all would eternity be possible. If God had to think, this would seem to necessitate the passage of time, but God knowing all and being all would know already. Once God ‘created’ or 'spoke', then time would have started and Christ I believe would have become the Son of God, and would have necessarily begun to pour out his life and pay the price of the redemption of His creation, evidently for the joy set before him a price worth paying.

So not only did Christ return to Glory but he wrought and bought a great victory and brought us into his Glory to share together for eternity.

God Bless.

 

Edited July 9, 2015 by Old-Pilgrim
s G

[JesusLivesInUs]

Dear friends in Christ

I think science and religion do not have to oppose each other here. Clearly we cannot have 100% reliability in the science of Carbon Dating(67% confidence level) in anything less than 50,000 years, however we can be of reasonable, educated minds to understand how God in his infinite ability can create such a beautiful universe, more specifically our planet in the normal process of plate tectonics through subduction zones, natural sedimentation and other processes. For our planet to evolve to its current state, it takes millions, not 6 thousand years to develop. Take the Hawaiian Islands for an example of this process. These islands were created by a hotspot under the earth's crust and as plate moves inches, maybe feet westward each year, so does the volcanic activity, thus creating each of its islands. I know we want the interpretation of the Bible to be a literal interpretation of God's word, but understand that the men who wrote the books of the Bible were from the mindset of that time, which did not have the science to illuminate God's creation, so we can better understand the beauty of its origin. Let's try to keep our minds open to possibilities.