The Repentance Issue::: revisited

[kevinmiller]

I think that when you "change your mind" at salvation, it can't help but include your view of sin. If you don't see the gravity of your sin and the importance of changing your mind towards it, how can you ever turn your heart to Christ? I think that a big part of the change of mind involved in repentance is how you view your sin.

[PastorHarrison]

David gave us a pretty good picture of this.... he said "I will be sorry for my sin..." and the the manifested truth of scripture is that repentance is not merely a change of mind, but a change of heart and a surrender of the will. The repentance of the Prodigal is a good example.... he came to himself (in mind) and then changed his mind about his surroundings....but although his mind was changed about his circumstances and what led to it.... his heart had to follow (which it did) and his will or selfwill was turned (pentae) as well in surrender to his father's will.

Repentance is not a work of self born of intellect, its a resulting condition / manifesting of the convicting work of the HolyGhost which, if not resisted, brings a person to that point of heart where salvation can be wrought by Christ Jesus.... you all know the rest.

Repentance then touches the intellect (Matt 21:39) the emotions, the will and the disposition. It is a divine gift Acts 11:18 and by its use Luke 15:7, 10 we can become the sons of God.

Lastly I want to add, as has been said "No repentance.... no salvation" just as their can be no conversion without conviction.

[HappyChristian]

David gave us a pretty good picture of this.... he said "I will be sorry for my sin..." and the the manifested truth of scripture is that repentance is not merely a change of mind, but a change of heart and a surrender of the will. The repentance of the Prodigal is a good example.... he came to himself (in mind) and then changed his mind about his surroundings....but although his mind was changed about his circumstances and what led to it.... his heart had to follow (which it did) and his will or selfwill was turned (pentae) as well in surrender to his father's will.

Repentance is not a work of self born of intellect, its a resulting condition / manifesting of the convicting work of the HolyGhost which, if not resisted, brings a person to that point of heart where salvation can be wrought by Christ Jesus.... you all know the rest.

Repentance then touches the intellect (Matt 21:39) the emotions, the will and the disposition. It is a divine gift Acts 11:18 and by its use Luke 15:7, 10 we can become the sons of God.

Lastly I want to add, as has been said "No repentance.... no salvation" just as their can be no conversion without conviction.

[JerryNumbers]

No repentance, no salvation, correct.

No change of mind, no salvation, for if the mind has not changed, them that person is in disagreement with God. One is not going to repent of sin, if they don't 1st agree that they're a sinner.

I don't see it as a gift, I see Christ as the gift as stated in the Bible, and this gift is given to the ones who repent and accept it.

Of course God has given everyone a measure of faith.


Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Seems some chose not to use it.

[kevinmiller]

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

God doesn't give all men faith. This verse is talking to Christians who have been given faith in God. It says to every man that is "among" you. This verse does not apply to those who will never come to Christ.

[PastorHarrison]

II Tim 2:25 If God peradventure will give the repentance....
Acts 11:18 Then hath God also to the gentiles granted repentance unto life....

[Carrierwave~]

I think that when you "change your mind" at salvation' date=' it can't help but include your view of sin. If you don't see the gravity of your sin and the importance of changing your mind towards it, how can you ever turn your heart to Christ? I think that a big part of the change of mind involved in repentance is how you view your sin.[/quote']

Hello, Kevin

This is an excellent point you made. The Law is the "sin-revealer". The act of "changing your mind" does not just include a view of your sin but it is the very catalyst the Holy Spirit uses to bring guilt and conviction to the sinner's conscience. Note these scriptures:

"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
( Romans 3:19-20)

The Law brings the sinner to "own-up" to his lost condition and admit his guilt. Since he is now faced with the guilt of breaking the Law of God, the pressure of Holy Ghost conviction is applied. This is a very critical point. The sinner is now seeking a way out.

I have seen it so many times; people get this close to salvation yet they choose to turn down the Savior and instead fool themselves into thinking they can somehow "clean-up" their lives by abandoning their sins and start doing good deeds to salve their consciences. "After all, it was sin that got me into this mess--so I will just STOP SINNING and everything will be OK!" They reject the Savior because they don't want to face the fact that it was *their sins* that put Jesus on the CROSS to die for them.

It is very dangerous in my opinion to tell a sinner at this point that they must "turn from their sins" (false repentance) in order to be saved. The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked and may attempt to escape the pressure by promising to do better--to clean-up sinful activities and reform. Giving them the WRONG information during this critical time could break off the Spirit's opportunity to bring them to real repentance by receiving Christ Jesus as Savior. Satan is fighting this all the way to the CROSS.

Repentance is NOT complete until the sinner receives the REMEDY for his sin and guilt--JESUS! The Law is the SCHOOLMASTER that brings us to Christ! You have not fully "changed your mind"(REPENTED) until the sinner goes guilty all the way to the CROSS!! It is a diversion and quenching the Spirit to add "turning from sins" as part of the Gospel message. THAT IS NOT GOOD NEWS!; it is heresy. It is adding "works" and makes doing "works" or the Law a co-redeemer for salvation. NOT !! You cannot be truly saved by Jesus Christ unless you fully realize you are a helpless death-row convict of sin on your way to the execution chamber. Only when saved and the "new nature" is born within you by the Holy Spirit, can real changes begin.

Carrierwave~

[deafnva77]

The only sin they have to turn from is worshipping a false god. And that false is usually self/flesh <----which why people do what they do when they sin: they do it for their own flesh. It feels good to them

Why do people pick another religion? because their flesh likes that religion, it make them feel good. Some use vain imaginations of what kind of god he might be. Why do you think people lie? because their flesh don't want to deal with the consequences if they told the truth. Why do you think people steal? because their flesh wants it. Why do you think people prefer to do good to earn salvation (I'm a good person so I know I will go to heaven), because flesh want to think they can do a good job without the Lord. you see, all this is really worshiping your flesh whatever feels good even if it have a consequences (you like the sin, just don't like the consequences of it. If we didn't have consequences, that's what we would be doing all the time) . Picture of a king pampering his flesh by gorging food, being lazy, smoking, drinking, being merry.. All for himself.

You can't turn to the Lord unless you acknowledge you are a sinner and repent. Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. I am not talking about repenting every single sins you have done, but just the overall of all sins (I hope that make sense). Although sometimes certain sin help people realize they are a sinner and need Christ. Which is fine.

[Carrierwave~]

David gave us a pretty good picture of this.... he said "I will be sorry for my sin..." and the the manifested truth of scripture is that repentance is not merely a change of mind, but a change of heart and a surrender of the will. The repentance of the Prodigal is a good example.... he came to himself (in mind) and then changed his mind about his surroundings....but although his mind was changed about his circumstances and what led to it.... his heart had to follow (which it did) and his will or selfwill was turned (pentae) as well in surrender to his father's will.

Repentance is not a work of self born of intellect, its a resulting condition / manifesting of the convicting work of the HolyGhost which, if not resisted, brings a person to that point of heart where salvation can be wrought by Christ Jesus.... you all know the rest.

Repentance then touches the intellect (Matt 21:39) the emotions, the will and the disposition. It is a divine gift Acts 11:18 and by its use Luke 15:7, 10 we can become the sons of God.

Lastly I want to add, as has been said "No repentance.... no salvation" just as their can be no conversion without conviction.

Remember, David was already saved--his repentance was to restore FELLOWSHIP and the JOY of his salvation--not his salvation. (PSALM 51) This can also be said of the Prodigal--It is stated that he was already A SON.

Again, at SALVATION you repent (Change you Mind) that ONLY CHRIST can save your soul--you are lost, and sold under sin and can't do it. I would also add--NO CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS...NO SALVATION.


Carrierwave~

[Carrierwave~]

The only sin they have to turn from is worshipping a false god. And that false is usually self/flesh <----which why people do what they do when they sin: they do it for their own flesh. It feels good to them

Why do people pick another religion? because their flesh likes that religion, it make them feel good. Some use vain imaginations of what kind of god he might be. Why do you think people lie? because their flesh don't want to deal with the consequences if they told the truth. Why do you think people steal? because their flesh wants it. Why do you think people prefer to do good to earn salvation (I'm a good person so I know I will go to heaven), because flesh want to think they can do a good job without the Lord. you see, all this is really worshiping your flesh whatever feels good even if it have a consequences (you like the sin, just don't like the consequences of it. If we didn't have consequences, that's what we would be doing all the time) . Picture of a king pampering his flesh by gorging food, being lazy, smoking, drinking, being merry.. All for himself.

You can't turn to the Lord unless you acknowledge you are a sinner and repent. Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. I am not talking about repenting every single sins you have done, but just the overall of all sins (I hope that make sense). Although sometimes certain sin help people realize they are a sinner and need Christ. Which is fine.

Hello "deafnva77"

That is really GOOD! I couldn't say it any better than that. All false god's, idols in particular, are made by and are the "works of men's hands". It is the false god of self that we must repent FROM, and Christ Jesus which we must repent TO to be saved. That is exactly what the Jews were doing; "going about to establish their own righteousness" WORKS salvation. Hebrews 6:1 states the first principle of the doctrine of Christ is "REPENTANCE FROM DEAD WORKS" and faith toward God. "Dead works" are Law works--the vain efforts unsaved man to win eternal life. That is what John the Baptist preached to Israel. The Jews were a self-righteous, law keeping, heritage-proud, people. John told them to "REPENT" to "Change their minds". They responded by "confessing their sins"--literally, confessing their SINFULNESS. John never told them to "stop sinning" but confess their lostness and they would "receive remission of sins". THEIR PROBLEM WAS--SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS. John was teaching that Israel needed a SAVIOR not self-righteousness.

Carrierwave~

[JerryNumbers]

God doesn't give all men faith. This verse is talking to Christians who have been given faith in God. It says to every man that is "among" you. This verse does not apply to those who will never come to Christ.

Contradicting God.

[1Timothy115]

You cannot be truly saved by Jesus Christ unless you fully realize you are a helpless death-row convict of sin on your way to the execution chamber. Only when saved and the "new nature" is born within you by the Holy Spirit, can real changes begin.

So, you must be convinced (me/you the individual) of sin...turn from sin(repent)...then receive Christ's finished work (sinless blood at crucifixtion and resurrection)?

Can you agree with any of the following? :
Real penitence; sorrow or deep contrition for sin, as an offense and dishonor to God, a violation of his holy law, and the basest ingratitude towards a Being of infinite benevolence. This is called evangelical repentance, and is accompanied and followed by amendment of life.

Repentance is a change of mind, or a conversion from sin to God.
Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation. 2Cor. 7. Matt. 3.
Repentance is the relinquishment of any practice, from conviction that it has offended God.
Noah Webster?s 1828 American Dictionary

[kevinmiller]

Contradicting God.

That kind of response is not one that comes from knowledge...
I'm not contradicting God. You're taking one phrase and totally ignoring the context. Paul isn't talking about every man unsaved and saved. He is talking about those who are "among" you. He is specifically addressing Christians. It doesn't matter if the unsaved think higher of themselves than they ought because they are still in their sins anyway.

[Saul]

The only thing needed is Faith!!!!!!!!!!!One gets saved by BELIEVING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This false doctrine of repentance unto salvation is taught by Dr.Cloud,Rice,Spurgeon(other baptist popes)as well as the Catholics,their pope and their false prophet...Billy Gram!Every unclean bird-Dumb Dogs-Clouds without water.
Ive already taken every verse on repentance and proven two things with Gods word.
1.The only people who need to repent to be saved are...(a)unbelievers (b)those who worship false gods,who don't believe in Christ ©those who put trust in the works of the law ( repenting of sins ) or good works.But all these people still get saved because they BELIEVE!
2.Repenting of sins is the works of the law-Jonah 3:10

I have proven this with well over 100 verses,but these I.F.B.-so called ( really they are Catholics who crept in anawares) keep deleting all my posts.....They are cowards as most false teachers are.

John which is suposed to be the clearest gospel of all the gospels mentions BELIEVE 90 times.
Repent? Mentioned NONE!the same amount of verses these dumb dogs have to prove this false Catholic(Baal) repenting unto salvation gospel.
Show me in what verse the thief repented,or the jailor or the Enuch. And not your assumtion of their repentance!


Preach Repentance,but concerning the gospel..."thy faith hath saved thee'!

[Carrierwave~]

Dave,

I have to ask this question; Where in the Word of God does it say one has to "turn from their sin" or "repent of sin" in order to be saved? I have not found one place in the Bible in regard to salvation where a sinner must "turn from his sinning" in order to be saved. Repent does not mean "to turn from sin".

Godly sorrow may bring one to a "change of mind" to put their FAITH in Christ for salvation, but godly sorrow is not "repentance". I prefer to use biblical definitions and terms God has given us. I do not agree with any of the statements you listed as being biblically sound regarding METANOEO "a change of mind".

Carrierwave~