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The Repentance Issue::: revisited


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I have been gathering information for quite some time now on all the aspects of salvation and how one gets saved, with special attention to the Call from God all the way to the sinner's response to receive or reject.

Here is something on repentance that I just heard yesterday from a visiting speaker to our church. Very interesting is the fact that we can learn new things everyday especially when we think we have all the details fully understood. :)

When God draws a sinner to Himself for salvation, that sinner has the opportunity to reject or accept the offer from the LORD. This is the sinner's free-will. In order to receive the gift of salvation, the sinner must first confess to God that he is indeed undone in God's sight. This confession is simply [b]"Saying the same thing"[/b] as God does about his lost condition.

At this point, repentance must come next. One particular school of thought teaches that repentance was something that the unregenerate sinner did of his own free-will, but that is simply not the case at all. [b] Repentance is a Gift from God [/b]that enables the sinner to make a clean break-away from Satan who has him tightly grasped in devilish clutches. No mortal being is a match for the devil and God knows that fully well. It is for this very reason that the LORD must step in and grant power and authority to the one desiring to repent to do it.

I'm still gathering scripture verses on this.

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I have been gathering information for quite some time now on all the aspects of salvation and how one gets saved, with special attention to the Call from God all the way to the sinner's response to receive or reject.

Here is something on repentance that I just heard yesterday from a visiting speaker to our church. Very interesting is the fact that we can learn new things everyday especially when we think we have all the details fully understood. :)

When God draws a sinner to Himself for salvation, that sinner has the opportunity to reject or accept the offer from the LORD. This is the sinner's free-will. In order to receive the gift of salvation, the sinner must first confess to God that he is indeed undone in God's sight. This confession is simply "Saying the same thing" as God does about his lost condition.

At this point, repentance must come next. One particular school of thought teaches that repentance was something that the unregenerate sinner did of his own free-will, but that is simply not the case at all. Repentance is a Gift from God that enables the sinner to make a clean break-away from Satan who has him tightly grasped in devilish clutches. No mortal being is a match for the devil and God knows that fully well. It is for this very reason that the LORD must step in and grant power and authority to the one desiring to repent to do it.

I'm still gathering scripture verses on this.


Hers something for ya to consider!
Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Num 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
Looks like their faith required an action, was that action repentance?
What is repentance?
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I have been gathering information for quite some time now on all the aspects of salvation and how one gets saved, with special attention to the Call from God all the way to the sinner's response to receive or reject.

Here is something on repentance that I just heard yesterday from a visiting speaker to our church. Very interesting is the fact that we can learn new things everyday especially when we think we have all the details fully understood. :)

When God draws a sinner to Himself for salvation, that sinner has the opportunity to reject or accept the offer from the LORD. This is the sinner's free-will. In order to receive the gift of salvation, the sinner must first confess to God that he is indeed undone in God's sight. This confession is simply "Saying the same thing" as God does about his lost condition.

At this point, repentance must come next. One particular school of thought teaches that repentance was something that the unregenerate sinner did of his own free-will, but that is simply not the case at all. Repentance is a Gift from God that enables the sinner to make a clean break-away from Satan who has him tightly grasped in devilish clutches. No mortal being is a match for the devil and God knows that fully well. It is for this very reason that the LORD must step in and grant power and authority to the one desiring to repent to do it.

I'm still gathering scripture verses on this.


Interesting... I would like to see any verses that might back up this though I don't agree with it as of yet. :)
I see repentance and faith in God as one action. You turn away from your sinful desires and wants and turn to God. It's like a 180 degree turn. You side with God's condemnation against yourself and trust in Jesus Christ to be your propitiation. When God reveals who you are and what Jesus Christ did on the cross you chose to either side with God against yourself or reject Christ. (When I say God I'm talking about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost.)
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If this topic is being revisited, I'd sure like to see the first visit to the topic if someone knows what thread that was. I don't remember seeing other threads on it, but I'm very interested to hear what others have to say about it.

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I believe in repentance...I think you have to be careful how far you go with it because Christ says we are to have faith as a child to enter into Heaven. I know children do not completely grasp "repentance" but they can know they are sinners and know that they have to be sorry for their sin to accept Christ. However its a very simple thing.

I think salvation is "turning from sin to Christ" but some carry repentance so far that you have to be sorry for every single sin, or give up every single sin...and that can cause people to doubt their salvation...i.e: "What if I wasn't repentant enough?"

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I agree Suzy, there are those who get carried away with the concept of repentance and add stuff to it; not unlike the Pharisees.

I don't believe we have to repent of every single sin consciously or we are in trouble or yet lost. I believe the act of repentance is more of a change of heart, a change of lordship. We repent of sin in general (and specifically of the sins we are aware of or the Lord clearly points out to us) and we determine to give up our lordship of our own lives and accept Christ as our Lord. Once we accept Christ as our Lord, He will lead us to fully understand the repentance we "feel" and teach us further.

I'm not sure if I typed that clearly or not.

Our repentance is turning away from sin in a general sense and our giving up our selfish nature and accepting Christ as our Saviour and Lord. With Christ as our Lord, He will reveal to us specific areas where we need to repent (turn away from) particular sins in our lives.

Repentance is part of the first step we take in being born again, but I believe it becomes ever more specific as the we yield ourselves to the Lord and He guides us to turn from sins in our lives.

I do believe God calls us to His Son and offers us the grace we need to accept His Son.

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lettheredeemedsayso wrote:


1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.


And this applies to the topic of repentence in what way ?
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Hers something for ya to consider!
Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Num 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
Looks like their faith required an action, was that action repentance?
What is repentance?


1. they had to Repent and Turn FROM their rebellion against God and Moses
2. they had to Turn TO God and His Provision of a cure for the poison that was already in their blood (just like sin) and to turn to God in Faith that God was going to keep His Word that this would be done.

Looking on a brasen serpent does nothing for you logically speaking, but it required faith to abandon any attempt to deal with the problem themselves and then to turn to God's provision. They were made to look upon the very symbol of the one who would one day be made sin for us, who knew no sin - that we might have the righteousness of God.

There was a picture of that because all those who looked upon the brasen serpent had their blood cleansed of that deadly poison and lived when prior to that, they were dying and condemned.

There was Repentance and Faith - a Turning from sin, and a Turning to God. They are 2 sides of the same coin.
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1. they had to Repent and Turn FROM their rebellion against God and Moses
2. they had to Turn TO God and His Provision of a cure for the poison that was already in their blood (just like sin) and to turn to God in Faith that God was going to keep His Word that this would be done.

Looking on a brasen serpent does nothing for you logically speaking, but it required faith to abandon any attempt to deal with the problem themselves and then to turn to God's provision. They were made to look upon the very symbol of the one who would one day be made sin for us, who knew no sin - that we might have the righteousness of God.

There was a picture of that because all those who looked upon the brasen serpent had their blood cleansed of that deadly poison and lived when prior to that, they were dying and condemned.

There was Repentance and Faith - a Turning from sin, and a Turning to God. They are 2 sides of the same coin.


Amen! Very well put! I am pleased to hear you understand this the same way I do. Repentance and faith is one action; not two!
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The thief on the cross Turned from his sin (he agreed with God that justly deserved to pay for his sins) and Turned to Christ for Salvation. That was Repentance and Faith.

It was entirely by grace, he had no strength to do anything. All he could do was to turn to the Lord and ask for help.

Had he lived on and was not crucified that thief would have lived a life that reflected that decision to repent - just as the Thessalonians did. Repentance is not just a change of direction, but it continues in that new direction.

(1Th 1:6-10)
6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

v.6 They became disciples (followers of the apostles) inspite of afflictions.
v.7 they became examples to other believers (it's a visible testimony)
v.8 they became reproducing Christians (soul-winners)
v.9 they had shown visible evidence of saving grace as they Turned FROM idols and then Turned TO serve the Living God.
v.10 they lived in a manner that (holy living) that showed they were not living for the things of this world, but anticipating the Soon Return of the Lord Jesus Christ.

These are marks of a life changed through salvation.

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I've heard the debate on repentance from two extremes. One extreme is the side that says no "repentance" is required for a person to be saved. The other extreme is the side that says "repentance" comes before faith.

Both of these extremes are derived from a false impression of repentance. Ironically, so are most debates on repentance.

Repentance is simply the act of turning from your sin to a Holy God. This is not something you say in order to be saved. I actually had a guy try to convince me that you had to utter the words "I repent" in order to be saved!

John the Baptist and Jesus both preached repentance. They made no indication of a difference in repenting and being born again.

I guess what I'm trying to say is along the lines of what JJJ4given posted earlier: that the problems in understanding the role of repentance in salvation arise from trying to separate the two. At the exact moment a lost person repents, he is a believer; at the exact moment a lost person believes, he repents.

Repentance after salvation still involves turning from sin to God, but it is not another salvation because repentance at the time of salvation is the start of a relationship while the repentance of a believer is to maintain that relationship with God.

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It was entirely by grace, he had no strength to do anything. All he could do was to turn to the Lord and ask for help.


Grace:::: Unmerited favor. Free, undeserved gift.

That is precisely what I was trying to describe.

True repentance that leads us to salvation is a gift from God. He knows that we are insufficient in our own strength, and in no way at all is the devil going to let us go. When we call out to God to be saved (because He first drew us), He gives us the strength to make the break from Satan and turn to Himself.
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From my hubby: Faith and repentance go hand in hand. They are two sides of the same coin, true faith implies repentance and vice versa. They come together as gifts from God.
PS..I agree with him. :mrgreen:


Me too, I agree with him. :mrgreen:

I.E. First God draws us, then we cry out in desperation to Him. At that point He reaches out to us and grants us His very Divine Gifts of Faith and the power/authority/ability to Repent on His terms.
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getting what from? That repentance is from God?


I think he wants documentation to back up my premise that true repentance isn't complete until it comes as a divine gift from God, Himself. I know there are oodles of Bible verses for it, but just need to do the research. :D

It's just as you have said, Matie-k, that true repentance and saving faith are back to back on the same coin. I maintain that the little bit of faith that we have when we call out to God, He sees, receives and then grants us a Gift of His unmerited Favor, (i.e. His Grace). This Gift of His Grace includes within it His power and authority that He extends to us to enable us to make the break from Satan. We simply cannot break-away on our own. This breaking away IS repentance. It's an about face to leave Satan and sinning and run into the outstretched arms of the LORD.

I see an identical principle with our prayers. When we pray to the Father the Holy Spirit carries those prayers, translates them into groanings that cannot be uttered (by us) and presents them to the Father.

This is what the Evangelist was describing that particular Sunday, and it just clicked with me and made good common sense.

We have to remember that we are not forbidden from God to use good common sense that is based on sound logic. It's just like smoking or any usage of tobacco at all, card playing (with the set of King, Queen, Jack, Joker, Ace, and numbers 2 thru 9), and dancing being sins. There aren't any verses that say, "Thou shalt not use tobacco!", "Thou shalt not play with those cards!", or "Thou shalt not dance!" However, Isn't it obvious????
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I have a question about repentance. Do you believe you can turn to God and ask Him to save you but in the back of your mind you're thinking about some sin that you'd hate to give up? I ask because we had a man at my old church who came forward and wanted to be saved but said he didn't want to give up alcohol. The associate pastor told him that you had to be willing to give up the alcohol before he could repent and be saved. The pastor later told him that he could just ask to be saved and God would help him deal with the alcohol. The associate pastor ended up leaving but it has always caused me confusion. It seems that if you really want to be saved that God will save you and help you deal with sin. If I can make myself not want to sin then why would I need Christ?

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Repentance isn't giving up a sin - that is moral reformation - and God doesn't ask that before we come to Him for salvation. What He does ask is that we change our minds about our sin and that we turn from it in our hearts. Yes, it may take a little while for us to get that sinful habit, etc. out of our lives, but now we have changed our mind about that sin and no longer desire it like we did before. Now there is a struggle against it.

If someone has a specific sin they are dealing with when presented with the Gospel, and they consciously refuse to turn from it in their heart, then they cannot be saved (at that point in time), as they are NOT repentant. The Bible teaches repentance and faith are both necessary for salvation.

John 3:19-21 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Referring to the Tribulation period, but the principle is the same (ie. that men are not saved when they are unwilling to turn from their sin):

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Drunkeness is specifically mentioned as one of the sins that keeps people from receiving God's gift of salvation in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Praise the Lord that if they repent of the sin and receive the Saviour, He can cleanse them from that sinful way of life.

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I have been gathering information for quite some time now on all the aspects of salvation and how one gets saved, with special attention to the Call from God all the way to the sinner's response to receive or reject.

Here is something on repentance that I just heard yesterday from a visiting speaker to our church. Very interesting is the fact that we can learn new things everyday especially when we think we have all the details fully understood. :)

When God draws a sinner to Himself for salvation, that sinner has the opportunity to reject or accept the offer from the LORD. This is the sinner's free-will. In order to receive the gift of salvation, the sinner must first confess to God that he is indeed undone in God's sight. This confession is simply "Saying the same thing" as God does about his lost condition.

At this point, repentance must come next. One particular school of thought teaches that repentance was something that the unregenerate sinner did of his own free-will, but that is simply not the case at all. Repentance is a Gift from God that enables the sinner to make a clean break-away from Satan who has him tightly grasped in devilish clutches. No mortal being is a match for the devil and God knows that fully well. It is for this very reason that the LORD must step in and grant power and authority to the one desiring to repent to do it.

I'm still gathering scripture verses on this.


P-E

We Agree!

I like ryme.
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I think salvation is "turning from sin to Christ" but some carry repentance so far that you have to be sorry for every single sin, or give up every single sin...and that can cause people to doubt their salvation...i.e: "What if I wasn't repentant enough?"


:goodpost:

Repentance to the point of works-based salvation really frustrates me when I hear it. I like to look at repentance as a part of salvation, not a pre-requisite like some people make it sound like. Is repentance first, and then forgiveness? Or forgiveness first, and then repentance?

The way I look at it, neither. They are both instantaneous. You must turn your mind from sin (notice you aren't necessarily turning from sin [becoming self-righteous or cleaning yourself up first], but instead, changing the way you think about sin) and look toward Christ as the one and only way to the forgiveness from the punishment of that sin. How else can we trust in Christ without repentance! There must be a change! Then God will work in your life and clean you up. But that's no guarantee that anyone will live sinless or that anyone will be invincible from the temptation or falling into the sins of the past.

I'm sure most of us all believe the same exact thing, but just have different ways of explaining it. It's so hard to understand how God forgives us that sometimes our words just don't do it justice. :thumb
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Kitagrl wrote:
I think salvation is "turning from sin to Christ" but some carry repentance so far that you have to be sorry for every single sin, or give up every single sin...and that can cause people to doubt their salvation...i.e: "What if I wasn't repentant enough?"


yes, I noticed that too.


Anyway, The way I look at it is repenting of pride which in my opinion is the same as sins. If you have too much pride (pride can come in all kinds of form), it makes it harder for you to turn to God and let him work with you. It is like this: A person sees there is nothing wrong with white lies and thinks God doesn't mind because it involves not hurting the other person's feelings. That person have just made up what kind of a god he want so he doesn't have to change his ways. Once you realized that your ways is not God's ways, and repenting for ever thinking such that way, It becomes easy for you to grow in Christ, even if you make mistakes along the way.
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yes, I noticed that too.


Anyway, The way I look at it is repenting of pride which in my opinion is the same as sins. If you have too much pride (pride can come in all kinds of form), it makes it harder for you to turn to God and let him work with you. It is like this: A person sees there is nothing wrong with white lies and thinks God doesn't mind because it involves not hurting the other person's feelings. That person have just made up what kind of a god he want so he doesn't have to change his ways. Once you realized that your ways is not God's ways, and repenting for ever thinking such that way, It becomes easy for you to grow in Christ, even if you make mistakes along the way.


Amen Angie! Many do not completely agree with God on what is a sin. Its not good to disagree with God.

I might add, one had better be sorry for ever sin that they can remember, that's for sure.

What just came to my mind is Job.

5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
Job 1:5 (KJV)

I believe this shows just how serious sin is. Some take sin way to lightly. Perhaps that is what Eve and Adam did as well in the garden.

All sin is ugly, even what some consider to be just a small sin, confessed its a major thing.

Seems we are in a time when many think if the sin want send one to hell, its alright to partake of.
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This repenting of your sin doctrine sounds like works salvation. :loco


You don't think sinners ought to change their minds about their sins?? Hrm.
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A lot of times it sounds like that, Janine. Repentance (a change of mind) is required, since we do have to choose Christ- but a lot of people try to redefine repentance to mean something that it does not, and I think it's this wrong definition that you feel is works based. True repentance has no attachment to works (although after we are saved, our lives should reflect it). It simply means "a change of mind". It doesn't mean you have to change your mind and then change your actions (aka clean yourself up before you can get saved). That's where a lot of people get confused and take the path of works-based salvation. They believe God won't forgive us until we clean ourselves up, but that's not true.

Some people don't like the Greek, but the the word for repentance was in Greek before it was in English, so lets look there:

Luke 13:3 (just a random verse I picked out that contains the word repent)
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent (με

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Why do some consider repentance a gift?

I am not debating this topic I want to know your reasoning. This puzzles me since it would seem that repentance is the acknowledgement of our sin, our plight and our judgment and turning from that knowldege, exercising faith (a gift) in trusting Christ who paid our penalty for sin, clothed us in his righteousness and gave us a right standing before God.

Godly sorrow worketh repentance ... is the drawing and conviction of the Holy Spirit but I do not see repentance being a gift.

The goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance

If repentance were a gift would not have to be given before salvation? Where faith is given to all men I have not read the repentance is give to all men.

Where does the thought that repentance is a gift come from? Please clarify ...



orvals

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I have spent several hours studying this out and would agree after the study that repentance is a gift of God. Based on Acts 11:18 (and others) and the fact that repentance works in harmony with faith and the drawing / convciting of the Holy Spirit there is really no other way to see it in my mind.

orvals

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I believe, like salvation (I don't believe the Scriptures teach faith is a gift, but that salvation is the gift of God referred to in Ephesians 2:8-9) repentance is a gift offered to all through the convicting work of the Holy Spirit - however, like salvation it can be rejected and resisted.

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I believe, like salvation (I don't believe the Scriptures teach faith is a gift, but that salvation is the gift of God referred to in Ephesians 2:8-9) repentance is a gift offered to all through the convicting work of the Holy Spirit - however, like salvation it can be rejected and resisted.


Hi Jerry, :smile

That's the way I see it too. :thumb

I picture it like the songwriter, Charles Wesley who wrote, "And Can It Be".

In my Living Hymns, #186, verse #4.

Long my imprisoned spirit lay. Fastbound in sin and

nature's night; Thine eye diffused a quickening ray. I woke, the

dungeon flamed with light; My chains fell off, my heart was free; I

rose, went forth, and followed Thee.

Chorus:::

Amazing love! How can it be that Thou my God shouldst die for me.

When we were deep in our sinful lost state, and black as black could be in our hearts, there was no way that we could simply look up to God of our own accord and beg for cleansing, salvation or redemption. The very call of God was the first Gift. He reached out to us in loving kindness and shone His bright light of conviction into our souls. That was the second gift. We respond with a deep longing desire to have that light and be rid of our horrid sin. He then grants to us the ability to turn from (((i.e. repent))) our dark dungeons and follow Him out of it. That was the third gift. In no way could we possibly have done this on our own.

We can easily see that Salvation is all of God, and yet He has given us a free-will to choose to follow Him or reject Him.
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