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The Repentance Issue::: revisited

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Kitagrl wrote:
I think salvation is "turning from sin to Christ" but some carry repentance so far that you have to be sorry for every single sin, or give up every single sin...and that can cause people to doubt their salvation...i.e: "What if I wasn't repentant enough?"


yes, I noticed that too.


Anyway, The way I look at it is repenting of pride which in my opinion is the same as sins. If you have too much pride (pride can come in all kinds of form), it makes it harder for you to turn to God and let him work with you. It is like this: A person sees there is nothing wrong with white lies and thinks God doesn't mind because it involves not hurting the other person's feelings. That person have just made up what kind of a god he want so he doesn't have to change his ways. Once you realized that your ways is not God's ways, and repenting for ever thinking such that way, It becomes easy for you to grow in Christ, even if you make mistakes along the way.

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yes, I noticed that too.


Anyway, The way I look at it is repenting of pride which in my opinion is the same as sins. If you have too much pride (pride can come in all kinds of form), it makes it harder for you to turn to God and let him work with you. It is like this: A person sees there is nothing wrong with white lies and thinks God doesn't mind because it involves not hurting the other person's feelings. That person have just made up what kind of a god he want so he doesn't have to change his ways. Once you realized that your ways is not God's ways, and repenting for ever thinking such that way, It becomes easy for you to grow in Christ, even if you make mistakes along the way.


Amen Angie! Many do not completely agree with God on what is a sin. Its not good to disagree with God.

I might add, one had better be sorry for ever sin that they can remember, that's for sure.

What just came to my mind is Job.

5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
Job 1:5 (KJV)

I believe this shows just how serious sin is. Some take sin way to lightly. Perhaps that is what Eve and Adam did as well in the garden.

All sin is ugly, even what some consider to be just a small sin, confessed its a major thing.

Seems we are in a time when many think if the sin want send one to hell, its alright to partake of.

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This repenting of your sin doctrine sounds like works salvation. :loco


You don't think sinners ought to change their minds about their sins?? Hrm.

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A lot of times it sounds like that, Janine. Repentance (a change of mind) is required, since we do have to choose Christ- but a lot of people try to redefine repentance to mean something that it does not, and I think it's this wrong definition that you feel is works based. True repentance has no attachment to works (although after we are saved, our lives should reflect it). It simply means "a change of mind". It doesn't mean you have to change your mind and then change your actions (aka clean yourself up before you can get saved). That's where a lot of people get confused and take the path of works-based salvation. They believe God won't forgive us until we clean ourselves up, but that's not true.

Some people don't like the Greek, but the the word for repentance was in Greek before it was in English, so lets look there:

Luke 13:3 (just a random verse I picked out that contains the word repent)
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent (με

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Why do some consider repentance a gift?

I am not debating this topic I want to know your reasoning. This puzzles me since it would seem that repentance is the acknowledgement of our sin, our plight and our judgment and turning from that knowldege, exercising faith (a gift) in trusting Christ who paid our penalty for sin, clothed us in his righteousness and gave us a right standing before God.

Godly sorrow worketh repentance ... is the drawing and conviction of the Holy Spirit but I do not see repentance being a gift.

The goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance

If repentance were a gift would not have to be given before salvation? Where faith is given to all men I have not read the repentance is give to all men.

Where does the thought that repentance is a gift come from? Please clarify ...



orvals

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I have spent several hours studying this out and would agree after the study that repentance is a gift of God. Based on Acts 11:18 (and others) and the fact that repentance works in harmony with faith and the drawing / convciting of the Holy Spirit there is really no other way to see it in my mind.

orvals

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I believe, like salvation (I don't believe the Scriptures teach faith is a gift, but that salvation is the gift of God referred to in Ephesians 2:8-9) repentance is a gift offered to all through the convicting work of the Holy Spirit - however, like salvation it can be rejected and resisted.

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I believe, like salvation (I don't believe the Scriptures teach faith is a gift, but that salvation is the gift of God referred to in Ephesians 2:8-9) repentance is a gift offered to all through the convicting work of the Holy Spirit - however, like salvation it can be rejected and resisted.


Hi Jerry, :smile

That's the way I see it too. :thumb

I picture it like the songwriter, Charles Wesley who wrote, "And Can It Be".

In my Living Hymns, #186, verse #4.

Long my imprisoned spirit lay. Fastbound in sin and

nature's night; Thine eye diffused a quickening ray. I woke, the

dungeon flamed with light; My chains fell off, my heart was free; I

rose, went forth, and followed Thee.

Chorus:::

Amazing love! How can it be that Thou my God shouldst die for me.

When we were deep in our sinful lost state, and black as black could be in our hearts, there was no way that we could simply look up to God of our own accord and beg for cleansing, salvation or redemption. The very call of God was the first Gift. He reached out to us in loving kindness and shone His bright light of conviction into our souls. That was the second gift. We respond with a deep longing desire to have that light and be rid of our horrid sin. He then grants to us the ability to turn from (((i.e. repent))) our dark dungeons and follow Him out of it. That was the third gift. In no way could we possibly have done this on our own.

We can easily see that Salvation is all of God, and yet He has given us a free-will to choose to follow Him or reject Him.

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Hi Jerry, :smile

That's the way I see it too. :thumb

I picture it like the songwriter, Charles Wesley who wrote, "And Can It Be".

In my Living Hymns, #186, verse #4.

Long my imprisoned spirit lay. Fastbound in sin and

nature's night; Thine eye diffused a quickening ray. I woke, the

dungeon flamed with light; My chains fell off, my heart was free; I

rose, went forth, and followed Thee.

Chorus:::

Amazing love! How can it be that Thou my God shouldst die for me.

When we were deep in our sinful lost state, and black as black could be in our hearts, there was no way that we could simply look up to God of our own accord and beg for cleansing, salvation or redemption. The very call of God was the first Gift. He reached out to us in loving kindness and shone His bright light of conviction into our souls. That was the second gift. We respond with a deep longing desire to have that light and be rid of our horrid sin. He then grants to us the ability to turn from (((i.e. repent))) our dark dungeons and follow Him out of it. That was the third gift. In no way could we possibly have done this on our own.

We can easily see that Salvation is all of God, and yet He has given us a free-will to choose to follow Him or reject Him.


WB, If you're back :lol
your posting number is still 3333 :puzzled: )

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I have spent several hours studying this out and would agree after the study that repentance is a gift of God. Based on Acts 11:18 (and others) and the fact that repentance works in harmony with faith and the drawing / convciting of the Holy Spirit there is really no other way to see it in my mind.

orvals


Was the church at Jerusalem speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost? Look at what they said earlier:

Acts 11
1 ¶ And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.

and then:

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts is a book that tells the way things happened. A clearly carnally minded statement on their part. It is simply what they said. In fact, it would seem to indicate that they realized that God had made the way of salvation(repentance) available to the Gentiles. Not that it wasn't already available before. In fact, Ninevah believed along with other gentiles in the OT.

Anyhow, this statement coming from Judiasers who earlier contended with Peter, should not be given so much doctrinal weight. It is simply what they said and as ungodly as when they rideculed Peter for eating with the uncircumcised. They are clearly carnally minded as seen earlier in chapter 11 and throughout the book of Acts.

God bless!

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<>

Wasn't the path to God for the gentiles open in the days of the Old Testament?

I hear some say that this path for the gentiles was only opened in the New Testament.

I can't help but to think of Rahab.

31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

Heb 11:31 (KJV)

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

James 2:25 (KJV)

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JJJ,

Hi brother,

Not to get into a great debate but Acts 11:1 says "they heard that the gentiles had also recieved the word of God" verse 1 conects us with verse 18 "Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life".

Between verses 1 and 18 is the coversation sorrounding the event in which Peter was accused of breaking the law by going in among the Gentiles of which he recounted all that happend and concluded that the events were just like what happened to them at pentecost. ... Acts 11:16-18

Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Orvals

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JJJ,

Hi brother,

Not to get into a great debate but Acts 11:1 says "they heard that the gentiles had also recieved the word of God" verse 1 conects us with verse 18 "Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life".

Between verses 1 and 18 is the coversation sorrounding the event in which Peter was accused of breaking the law by going in among the Gentiles of which he recounted all that happend and concluded that the events were just like what happened to them at pentecost. ... Acts 11:16-18

Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Orvals


Hello again brother Orvals,

What was the gift that Peter was referring to in Acts 11:17? It wasn't repentance:

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

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Maybe it's just me, but after reading this thread and another thread in this forum (Is Repentance needed for Salvation?), it seems that there are two completely different views being supported and accepted. I am a little confused by this. :puzzled:

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Conversion means turning - true repentance (which is a change of mind resulting in a change of conduct) would certainly involve turning from sin to the Lord, but they are different concepts. One involves our mind and heart - the other involves what we do. There are OT passages that refer to turning from sin, turning to the Lord - those would be converting from one state to the other. Converting may or may not be in reference to salvation - it depends upon the context of the person using the term. For example, James 5 uses it in reference to a backslidden believer converting from the error of his ways, from the sin he has wandered into, back to the Lord.

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Conversion means turning - true repentance (which is a change of mind resulting in a change of conduct) would certainly involve turning from sin to the Lord, but they are different concepts. One involves our mind and heart - the other involves what we do. There are OT passages that refer to turning from sin, turning to the Lord - those would be converting from one state to the other. Converting may or may not be in reference to salvation - it depends upon the context of the person using the term. For example, James 5 uses it in reference to a backslidden believer converting from the error of his ways, from the sin he has wandered into, back to the Lord.


James 5:20 - Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Sounds more like an unbeliever than a believer. How can we save a "saved" persons soul from death? Correct me if i'm wrong. So you say that convert here means to restore a backslidden believer (Lk. 22:32), so would death imply physical death by which sometimes God punishes His disobedient children? (Acts 5:5-10; 1 Cor. 11:30; 1 Jn. 5:16). Thanks in advance!

Love,
Madeline

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Save them from the sin unto death.

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1 John 5:16 (KJV)

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Romans 10:1-4

"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Notice, the subject of Rom. 10:1-4 is the SALVATION of Israel; ..."that they might be saved".

Israel's spiritual problem was one of TRUST. They were trusting the wrong thing! "...going about to establish their own righteousness and have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

ISRAEL NEEDED TO "CHANGE THEIR MINDS" (repent); stop trusting their "dead" WORKS for salvation, and start trusting Christ's WORK for salvation.

There are really only 2 religions in the world-- saved by my WORKS, or --saved by Christ's WORK. This is the salvation "repentance" throughout the Bible. Adam and Eve repented and traded their "fig leaves" for bloody "coats of skins" made by God. Cain trusted the WORKS of his own hands--Abel trusted in the BLOOD OF A LAMB!

"Repentance" for salvation is the same today for ALL men and women. Hebrews 6:1 "..Repentance from dead works and faith toward God". OUR CHOICE: trust in your own WORKS, or trust in Christ's WORK at Calvary.

Dead works are ALL WORKS. "Repentance" here is NOT ?turning from your sins?, but acknowledging our own sinfulness and inability to save ourselves and flee to Christ for His righteousness. "Turning from sins" is the exact opposite of GRACE salvation. Sinners can only be saved by GRACE because SINNERS HAVE NO MERIT. (Romans 3:19-20) Establishing your own righteousness (turning from sin) for salvation is WORKS salvation; no different from Israel's error, or Cain's vegetables. It is WORKS. Grace and works are like oil and water; they cannot be mixed. "REPENTANCE" at SALVATION is FROM our dead works, TO Christ's RIGHTEOUSNESS. What are you trusting in??

Carrierwave~

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A lot of times it sounds like that, Janine. Repentance (a change of mind) is required, since we do have to choose Christ- but a lot of people try to redefine repentance to mean something that it does not, and I think it's this wrong definition that you feel is works based. True repentance has no attachment to works (although after we are saved, our lives should reflect it). It simply means "a change of mind". It doesn't mean you have to change your mind and then change your actions (aka clean yourself up before you can get saved). That's where a lot of people get confused and take the path of works-based salvation. They believe God won't forgive us until we clean ourselves up, but that's not true.

Some people don't like the Greek, but the the word for repentance was in Greek before it was in English, so lets look there:

Luke 13:3 (just a random verse I picked out that contains the word repent)
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent (με

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Conversion means turning - true repentance (which is a change of mind resulting in a change of conduct) would certainly involve turning from sin to the Lord' date=' but they are different concepts. One involves our mind and heart - the other involves what we do. There are OT passages that refer to turning from sin, turning to the Lord - those would be converting from one state to the other. Converting may or may not be in reference to salvation - it depends upon the context of the person using the term. For example, James 5 uses it in reference to a backslidden believer converting from the error of his ways, from the sin he has wandered into, back to the Lord.[/quote']

Hello, Jerry

To rightly divide the Word, redemption must have 2 parts: Example: Ephesians 2:8,9 and Ephesians 2:10

"Salvation" of the Soul by GRACE alone, and "Sanctification" of the LIFE or CONVERSION.

Both are part of the redemption plan of God, however they must be kept separate. Salvation produces "eternal life", whereas Sanctification (conversion) produces "fruit". A "change of mind" (repentance) is an important component in BOTH.

But "repentance" at salvation AND "repentance" in sanctification (conversion) are completely different.

"True repentance" at SALVATION is a "change" in your TRUST. At SALVATION the Holy Ghost convicts that you must "repent" FROM all TRUST in yourself and your works to save you because you are a sinner. Then the Holy Ghost convinces you must "repent" TO complete TRUST in Jesus Christ alone to save you because He is RIGHTEOUS.

This is true repentance at SALVATION.

"Repentance" at Sanctification (conversion) is different, because the PURPOSE is different. You "repent" at sanctification (conversion), NOT TO BE SAVED, but to produce good works and FRUIT for God.

Confusion in caused when these 2 parts are combined; every false doctrine and heresy concerning salvation comes from not rightly dividing these TWO truths. These TWO aspects of redemption must be kept separate because BOTH do not save. Only one saves--repentance at salvation.

True repentance at "salvation" makes you BORN AGAIN.

True repentance at "conversion" brings a changed life and FRUIT for God.

Carrierwave~

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22 And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. 23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely: 24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.

25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them. 26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed. 27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. 28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. 29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

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I believe you must "change your thinking" when you get saved. There are only two religions in the world; salvation by your works or salvation by GRACE thru Jesus Christ.

Before one is saved, they are dead in trespasses and sins--works. (Ephesians 2:1)(Colossians 2:13). Everyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ as Savior is trusting their works. There are only these two choices. The Gospel is preached to "change the minds" of those who are saved by their works to put their faith and trust in Christ's work at Calvary. When you hear the Word preached and are convinced by the Spirit of God you have a need to trust Christ, the moment you exercise your God-given faith in Jesus Christ you have had a change of mind and trust. This is repentance for salvation.

Repentance is NOT a condition for salvation but a transition of trust. The idea espoused by many is that repent means to "turn from your sins". This implies one must do something with his sins other than give them to Christ for atonement. A synonym for "turn from your sins" is DO WORKS OF THE LAW. Sins are a transgression of the Law (1John 3:4). If you "TURN" from transgressing the Law, you MUST START KEEPING THE LAW!

Requiring a sinner to stop sinning and "do the works of the Law" to be saved is Lordship Salvation; a false doctrine taught by David Cloud, Ray Comfort, Paul Washer, John McCarthur and many others. Many are just adding Jesus to their list of must-do works for salvation. This is the crowd whom Jesus spoke of who had done many wonderful works, yet HE NEVER KNEW THEM. These go away unsaved still in their sins.

Carrierwave~

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