Do you go to the theatre?

[dwayner79]

The thing that perplexes me is that in the NT church, the entire church had a "tradition" as far as how they seperated from the world...how they acted...it was all unified and whatever "traditions" Paul or others laid down, that was followed.

Why is it that today, we sort of each do that which is right in our own eyes?

I would like to see what that looked like. I can not think of any specifics, except for the few things in Acts that the council agreed on (eating blood, etc.). Even if they had, they were a much smaller community dealing with basically one culture (until around the after the canon was complete when Christianity started spreading).

PE, you are referring again to 200 years ago and not 2000. Puritanical influences are what have made America so anti-everything; not the Bible.

I would like to see what either of you think those early church "traditions" looked like and we can examine them more.

[Samer]

YouTube is the closest I get to TV or the movies. I get my news from the Internet, which is faster than TV anyway.

[Anon]

I would like to see what that looked like. I can not think of any specifics, except for the few things in Acts that the council agreed on (eating blood, etc.). Even if they had, they were a much smaller community dealing with basically one culture (until around the after the canon was complete when Christianity started spreading).

PE, you are referring again to 200 years ago and not 2000. Puritanical influences are what have made America so anti-everything; not the Bible.

I would like to see what either of you think those early church "traditions" looked like and we can examine them more.

I don't think it really matters... what I'm saying is:

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

What this verse is saying is that the apostles taught certain things and they were to be followed. This verse does not even say "God's Words" but it says "traditions". This means that there are some things that should be followed even if they are not specifically in God's Word. It seems to me that there would be more unity if, say, a pastor said "We should not attend the theater" and so therefore nobody (at least in the church) attended the theater.

I realize we are all in different local churches and there are differences. But what I'm pointing out is that all the churches that Paul ministered to were pretty much of one mind (whatever the mind was) but yet today we face a multitude of opinions and feelings and everyone seems to think God expects this or that...where is the unity? I have a hard time coming to terms with this because somebody has to be wrong.

Either God doesn't care what we do as long as WE think its okay, or there's alot of Christians who need to be more sensitive to the Holy Spirit.

[George]

My understanding of that verse was that we weren't to make a graven image for the purpose of worship.

That is an interesting observation. I wonder where it came from? I quoted the verse exactly as it is printed in the Bible. I do not see the words "for the purpose of worship" included there. I believe reading things into the Bible which are not there is highly dangerous. It is also the source of many false doctrines.

In Christ,
George

[kevinmiller]

I just figured it was logical since that is typically what idols are used for. :?

On the other hand, what makes representing Christ in a play or movie idolatry unless you are worshipping that person?

[Anon]

That is an interesting observation. I wonder where it came from? I quoted the verse exactly as it is printed in the Bible. I do not see the words "for the purpose of worship" included there. I believe reading things into the Bible which are not there is highly dangerous. It is also the source of many false doctrines.

In Christ,
George

Where did this topic come from? :?

Anyway if it did not mean "for worship" then I suppose God should not have commanded Moses to make a brass serpent... or to make golden mice and emerods (probably bubonic plague).

Also any kind of kids stuffed animal or toy would be wrong because God says not to make a graven image of anything including animals.

The only logical conclusion would be that it is forbidden to make idols.

[pneu-engine]

Dwayne,

My point is that we American IFBs nave lost our emphasis and direction for Biblical and Godly things. Contrast our pleasure seeking lifestyle with that of foreign countries wherein it is a capital offense to read a KJV. Those believers are being martyred for their faith. It is happening even as we speak. What do you think they would say if this issue of movie-going were presented to them???? I can tell you right away what they would say. They would tell us to throw out the movies altogether and and just give them a Bible (KJV).

[dwayner79]

I don't think it really matters... what I'm saying is:

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

What this verse is saying is that the apostles taught certain things and they were to be followed. This verse does not even say "God's Words" but it says "traditions". This means that there are some things that should be followed even if they are not specifically in God's Word. It seems to me that there would be more unity if, say, a pastor said "We should not attend the theater" and so therefore nobody (at least in the church) attended the theater.

I realize we are all in different local churches and there are differences. But what I'm pointing out is that all the churches that Paul ministered to were pretty much of one mind (whatever the mind was) but yet today we face a multitude of opinions and feelings and everyone seems to think God expects this or that...where is the unity? I have a hard time coming to terms with this because somebody has to be wrong.

Either God doesn't care what we do as long as WE think its okay, or there's alot of Christians who need to be more sensitive to the Holy Spirit.

I understand that, but what were those traditions? And the epistles and "by word" are complete, no? (The epistles are, but I guess you could say the "by word" still applies. Never really thought about it.

@PE:
And we are so blessed to have the freedoms that we do, but contrasting us against those in countries that are not open to religious freedom is a bit unfair. I understand your point, but that does not at all mean that this particular thing or that particular thing is wrong. As humbling as it is to think of our suffering brothers and sisters in Christ, it does not do away with the fact that we have to "work out" our own sanctification here and now in this culture. I guess my point is just because we were born in America does not mean we need to live like we are in Bangladesh. In fact, those thoughts IMHO should drive us to ignore our petty differences and join together to help those people, but that's just me.

[Anon]

I understand that, but what were those traditions? And the epistles and "by word" are complete, no? (The epistles are, but I guess you could say the "by word" still applies. Never really thought about it.

My point really isn't what the traditions were...but rather that somehow they ALL agreed on what was the correct living standards for the Christian.

Today, every Christian figures out what is "okay" for them and they are good with that. Yet everybody has a totally different idea of what is "okay". Surely God isn't that diverse? THAT is my point.

[dwayner79]

Hmmm... ok I see that. But are you sure?

It seems that not all would go along with what the pastor preached, and those divisions were used to show truth from error.

I do not think that every detail was perfectly figured out and that everyone agreed to obey every little thing. It is true that our unity is what shows the world we are his disciples, and as such, I often find myself wondering if we should all quit our little discussions here. If this place were filled or frequented by mostly unsaved, I think my tone on here would be quite different.

In other words, if I had to guess, the traditions that they all agreed on were pretty general, and divisions were handled in the church as a means of spiritual growth.

I do agree that in a church, you should agree to the rules of that body, but I think the body should be built to support differing views on minor areas of differences. As a for instance, our church talks of teh glorious return of Jesus, but places no definitive statement on Pre-trib, post-trip, etc. allowing for various positions to be held and still have unity.

Unity is not attained through uniformity.

[Anon]

Well according to your verses the divisions were caused by heresy.

Wouldn't that mean that divisions among Christians are also often caused by heresy?

[George]

The only logical conclusion would be that it is forbidden to make idols.

That is quite correct. However making of a false image is idolatry. Most Baptists I know are quite quick to cast aspersions on the Roman Catholics for all of the images they have in their religion. However making an image or even portraying an image of Christ is exactly the same thing.

In Christ,
George

[kevinmiller]

The problem with the Catholic statues is that they worship them. They do the sign of the cross and pray to statues of the virgin Mary. That is where it become idolatry.

[Samer]

Romans 1:21-23
(21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
(23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Exodus 20:4-5
(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
(5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Seems like the Bible is against both the making of the images, and also the bowing down thereto.

[JerryNumbers]

John R. Rice wrote this book, "What Is Wrong with the Movies," back in 1938, which is many years ago. Even thought it was wrote many years ago it lays out why God's children should not go to movies nor let their children go.

I have also read many sermons by Sam Jones, he often spoke of the theater and how bad it was for Christians to go to such a place. He also warned people about grown men playing ball and where it would lead, he was correct. Seems many did not listen to Brother Sam nor Brother Rice.

So its not rightly just a modern day thing that the movies are bad stuff. Some people realized it many years ago. Its just that many of God's children did not take the warning.

I wish I had been taught when I was a young child not to go to the movies, but it seems my mother and grandmother did not understand what was wrong with them. I suppose many other unsuspecting parents were as they were.

And it was actually in the early 80's when it dawned on me that movies where not for God's children. Since them I have not been back.

Why would it be entraining for one of God's children to watch a movie that is portraying sin? And that is what most movies do, entrain people with sin. Same with TV.

What amazes me is the many Christians who have HBO and other such channels which are completely about sin. Why waste money God lets you use to buy such sin?

We have a satellite, but we just have the a basic package, I watch mostly Fox News, Linda watches the food channel a bit, and they are a few other channels that one can watch that don't have bad stuff on them and if we were in an area where we had good reception and access to a few more channels I believe we would drop it. We receive about 3 channels, NBC, ABC, CBS, but they don't always come in good enough to plan on watching.

And its correct, it does no make the least bit of difference where you watch them, weather its in the movie house, on satellite, or rent the movie, its still not a good things to do. remember even if the people in the world don't see you watch them in your home, God does, plus you filling your mind with stuff that should never go in it.

At about the same time period I realize what movies were I stopped listening to country music. There just is not much country music around that does not glorify sin. Why do I want sin to come into my mind listening to such stuff.

I know with the world my view is very unpopular, also with many Christians, but I'm out to please God and my Savior.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:22 (KJV)

4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.

1 Thess 2:4 (KJV)

10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Col 1:10 (KJV)

And there is no doubt in my mind, God is not pleased with His children who enjoy watching sin and or listening to songs that are about sin.

Is that being a legalist? Only if your against God and or want to defend the sin you are letting into your life. If you want to defend the sin your letting into your life don't argue with me about it, take it up with God, I guarantee you God is not pleased with you.

If you want to draw closer to God you must do those things that are pleasing to God.