Geneva Bible

[Guest Guest]

ptwild...I have limited knowledge on the Anglican Church, otherwise you would see me jumpin' on in. The knowledge I have is the RCC, because that is my roots. I do have a friend who was saved out of the Anglican (Episcopalian Church). She just called last night to tell me about that man in Siberia claiming he is Jesus Christ. Anyway, Susan...has just about every book on the Anglican church that you can imagine. We get to talking about King Henry the VIII...when she gets down. It helps here to stay faithful, and be happy for being a beautiful single female. This is my Estetician friend (Cosmetology) if you read any of my other posts. She is the one that I said should be a doctor. Well...I will get her info. if you care. She is very knowledgable on that subject...and, YES...has documented sources for proof. :smile God bless you brother! The Lord is coming for us...soon!

candlelight

[Jerry]

Sorry if you have a problem with someone using the normal meaning of a word in their posts. Ignorance means lack of knowledge. That is how I used the term - I won't apologize because you are oversensitive.

[Jerry]

Anglicanism did not "start from those councils", it existed before those councils. Those coucnils had nothing to do with Catholicism. The Bishop of Rome wasn't even in attendance at the first council. I assure you that, if you believe in the fundamentals of christianity, you believe what was produced at Nicea. That is where the basic fundamentals of Christianity were first deemed official.

It is impossible to have something start before it was founded. Henry the 8th founded the Anglican church. There was no Anglican church in any form prior to him.

The true remnant has never been in need of some official religious council to authorize our beliefs or the books in our Bible.

[Guest Guest]

Sorry if you have a problem with someone using the normal meaning of a word in their posts. Ignorance means lack of knowledge. That is how I used the term - I won't apologize because you are oversensitive.

Well...I was biting my tongue again, b/c it is Biblical. The Apostle Paul used it when starting the 7 churches. I will tell a little story (No I am not Joyce Meyer) about when I first heard the word "conviction" from the pulpet from my old pastor. I thought he was calling me a convict. I understood...Backsliding...I was afraid to do this b/c I tried and they came to my door the next night. No phone calls...straight to my front door. Oh boy...they hounded me with the love of Jesus Christ. Never have a felt like I belonged...than, in the IFB chruch. That is why I was saved on May 9, 2003. I could have easily said it was the "Profession of faith" I made in March of 1998...down on my knees, but God wanted me to be an IFB...KJV 1611 AV only child of God. He really spoke to my heart on that one! And, I am not ashamed or afraid to say it. I thought I was saved when I married my hubby...maybe according to others, but not according to the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of me. That was later when my heart and mind were in sinc. I need to stay as close to Christ as anyone can possibly be.

candlelight

[nymusicman]

1 Corinthians 14 doesn't speak at all about propheCy - it uses the word' date=' [i']propheSy, which means to preach or witness.

Nobody has ever pointed that out to me before,, nor, I guess, did I ever notice it. That is actually really cool. Thank you so much.

[ptwild]

Henry the 8th founded the Anglican church.

This is an untrue statement and repeating it over and over again will not make it true. He did make the official break from Rome, but he did not found it. The English Church was founded when Roman soldiers brought Christianity to Britain some time between 4 AD and 42 AD. The church did submit to Papal authority at some point, but it had squabled with Rome over extra biblical doctrine from the start and refusing to allow Henry VIII a divorce as the straw that broke the camal's back.

The true remnant has never been in need of some official religious council to authorize our beliefs or the books in our Bible.

The "true remnant" was at Nicea. They were the ones advocating against Arianism, Alexandrianism, and for the inclusion of the letters and gospels that came to be known as the Bible.

Sorry if you have a problem with someone using the normal meaning of a word in their posts. Ignorance means lack of knowledge. That is how I used the term - I won't apologize because you are oversensitive.

I don't have a problem with you calling me names. I guess the problem I have is that instead of answering the question you retreat to name calling. It's nothing more than a calloused way of saying "I don't know what I'm talking about but I'm just going to keep believeing what I want no matter what."

[nymusicman]

I find it somewhat troubling that I'm expected not to trust any "secular" sources for information. In my opinion, this is how cults often are. "Listen to our leaders, they're right and the rest of the world is wrong." That's fine if it's something that is coming from the Bible but I will trust a general consensus on history far before I would trust someone who is most likely to be biased in one direction or another. I'm assuming that everyone who claims that George Washington was a Baptist are Baptists themselves and I can hardly trust them to make a sound judgment when they are the only ones making such a claim.

I don't think we shouldn't read all sources (eat the meat, spit out the bones) but we do have to remember that nobody (and I mean nobody) writes unbiased. If someone is writing it usually means there is an agenda for writing that information. So there are slants given in documents. Secular sources will always try to make Christians look bad, and Christians will always (and were supposed to) point to just how worldly the world is.

Take for instance the debate between KJVO and those who support MV. I've noticed very frequently that MV supporters will leave out the fact that all their manuscripts came from at least the finances of the Catholic church, or will be bold enough to pump up the roman church as the real Christians. I also notice that they spend more time focusing on how the oldest manuscripts must be the best, etc... Then when I look at the other side of the view most books don't focus that much on where the oldest manuscripts come from but instead focus on the beginning english translators. So as you can imagine for the longest time I found it quite fustrating putting the pieces together because my history pre Tyndale was kind of vague except for what I had from MV sources. And how the new English translations were actually done was vague except for what I had from KJVO sources which stopped at the AV 1611. It is a good idea to look at all sources, but I've noticed that the most thorough history comes from those who are not afraid of it, which typically comes from those who are right.

By the way the person who posted the link to James Knox KJV series, that you so much. I can't tell you the blessing it's been clearing up so much information.

There is one place he avoided though and that is how we got the Bible canonized. And good resources for that one?

[ptwild]

There is one place he avoided though and that is how we got the Bible canonized. And good resources for that one?

The Bible was cannonized at Nicea in 325 A.D. by a council of the leaders of the several churches existing at that time. It's also the group that gave us the phrase "father son and holy spirit" to represent the trinitarian notion of one God in three persons. There was no general agreement on these issues, including many others (such as the nature of Christ) until Nicea.

[Guest Guest]

I don't think we shouldn't read all sources (eat the meat, spit out the bones) but we do have to remember that nobody (and I mean nobody) writes unbiased. If someone is writing it usually means there is an agenda for writing that information. So there are slants given in documents. Secular sources will always try to make Christians look bad, and Christians will always (and were supposed to) point to just how worldly the world is.

Take for instance the debate between KJVO and those who support MV. I've noticed very frequently that MV supporters will leave out the fact that all their manuscripts came from at least the finances of the Catholic church, or will be bold enough to pump up the roman church as the real Christians. I also notice that they spend more time focusing on how the oldest manuscripts must be the best, etc... Then when I look at the other side of the view most books don't focus that much on where the oldest manuscripts come from but instead focus on the beginning english translators. So as you can imagine for the longest time I found it quite fustrating putting the pieces together because my history pre Tyndale was kind of vague except for what I had from MV sources. And how the new English translations were actually done was vague except for what I had from KJVO sources which stopped at the AV 1611. It is a good idea to look at all sources, but I've noticed that the most thorough history comes from those who are not afraid of it, which typically comes from those who are right.

By the way the person who posted the link to James Knox KJV series, that you so much. I can't tell you the blessing it's been clearing up so much information.

There is one place he avoided though and that is how we got the Bible canonized. And good resources for that one?

ITA, about "most thorough history comes from those who are not afraid of it, which typically comes from those who are right". Again, I am recommending David Barton b/c I do believe he is very accurate, "not afraid" to speak out on the truth. I am in no way related to David Barton...but, I discovered him on Cable TV one night...awhile ago. I heard him talking about how this country would be still Christian-based had we "White Anglo-Saxon" people allowed our fellow African American brothers and sisters in Christ to share in our Christian Heritage. I have learned much from his series...and, since...I know how spiritual AA's are...I found him to be right on in his teachings. He makes everything seem very clear...and, explains throroughly the rich Christian Heritage our country once had. JMHO.

candlelight

[Guest Guest]

Good afternoon Kevin. :lol Don't worry...I won't stone you. I know your sense of humor...and, besides I also included how emotional women are...b/c it reminds me of my "unjustified" misundertanding when we first started posting together. NO...I don't speak in tongues. The only 2 tongues I have is one that is from the spirit...and, the other is from the flesh. I "try" to combat my "fleshly" tongue...daily. If you knew my hubby and son...they conveniently slip out of the room when they see I am emotional, again. Note my age: A "delicate" 44 at times. As Archie Bunker would say to Edith: "Mental Pause". Or, as my ex-husband would say..."Women have PMS...and, men have women". I do have a sense of humor. :lol :thumb Although. sometimes I get myself in trouble for it. I hope you aren't offended. Kevin. :smile

Well, as far as "secular" information? I was raised in the public school system throughout my life (except during middle school 7-8 grade...I attended parochial school). With that being said...I wasn't raised without prayer in the public schools b/c Ms. Madeline O'Hare stampeded to the US Supreme court prior to my birth in 1964. Basically, except for some good "ole' timers" I was raised by the "hippie" teachers of the 60's and 70's. Open classroom...freedom of speech, liberal freedom of press (in my gradeschool) that proved nothing but failure. My parents were (my mom still is) conservative...from the Great Depression Era. My 17 year old son has been attending public school since 3rd grade (before that... Montessori School) and, I am not at all pleased with what they have taken out of the history textbooks our children use...I also taught 5th grade in the Cleveland School Sytstem for 16 years...so, I am very familiar with how the "secular" world sabotages our Godly heritage. I have studied US history throughout my life...my dad was a history buff. He took the family all over the USA to site see...battlefields, museums, graveyards, other points of interest. So...at a young age...I was accustomed to the "truth" as it truly was back then....and, I can remember it vividly. My brothers have the historical data that my dad left as a legacy. They are "sentimental" Irishmen. I don't accept the truth from very many "secular" sources b/c I know that it has been tampered with. I will use the word "bias" when taking about the media, and anything that our liberal authors throw at us. Christian History is hidden deep...but, it is there...no doubt. You have to look for it. And, I have! Again, I recommend David Barton...please look him up in the Internet (he is there). Although, they will "try" and slander the man's good name if you let them (the press that is). Needless to say...I don't care for Communists. And, this is where this country is heading. Right under our very noses. Unfortunetly, my son doesn't know the world that I once knew...nor, I the world my parents knew...and, so on. It headed for a big nose dive in the 1960's. The Vietnam War, Free Love...Haight-Ashberry in San Fransico, CA comes to mind here. These lost young people (at that time) were experimenting with LSD. An experiment that was governmental...to explore the other 90% of the human brain...as we only use about 10% (Dr. Timothy Leary)...gone into the hands of a "curious" generation. I am VERY greatful that I escaped that era...otherwise, prior to my salvation...I would have been riding on that roller-coaster...believe me. I had no self-control...until Jesus Christ came into my life. Thank the Lord that I only experimented w/ alcohol...b/c the other stuff was unappealing. Alcohol was BAD enough. Now, if you want to start talking about speaking in tongues? Well, I could start w/ the "Beloved Enemy" and what it did to me, and other loved ones...some are not hear to speak for themselves. By the Grace of God I am not 6 feet under like them. :sad

Now, as far as "Speaking in Tongues"? First...one needs to define what tongues is. Go back to the OT...it was a sign to the Israelites for them to believe (obviously prior to the coming of the Holy Spirit). There are 3 Types of Tongues: 1) Imposed by the Holy Spirit. 2) Imposed by an evil spirit. 3) Imposed by the human spirit. Then, as believers we must "Rightly divide the word of truth". ll Timothy 2:15...Study to shew thyself upproved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth...KJV. Next, we need to ask ourselves? What DISPENSATION is it? We are now in the Dispensation of Grace...or Age of Grace. The people of Corinth were close to the Book of Acts...therefore, they were very close to the Jewish people and their beliefs...even though they were Gentiles. There were also certain rules within the church on "Speaking in Tongues". In Chapter 12:1-3...The people of Corinth had an "evil spirit on them" b/c they were cursing God. I Corinthians 12:1-3...Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as you were led. ***Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. *** KJV 1611 AV.

As far as my source for the "Spiritual Gifts". I do apologize...I had posted this in another thread awhile ago...so, I thought that I would be repeating myself. This booklet is called Gifts of Grace - The Character of Christ in HIs People. By: Keith and Marian Yoder, Teaching the Word Ministries. Keith and Marian Yoder...TEACHING THE WORD MINISTRIES...One Mayfield Drive...Leola, PA 17540...(717) 656-4056...(717) 656-4712 FAX. This is NOT from the IFB Baptist church...it is non-denominational in purpose.

On the inside cover: A SPIRITUAL GIFT IS: -a unique capacity...-given by the Holy Spirit...-to each believer...-for service in connection with the church...-in order that the church may grow...in numbers, in character, and reproduce itself in new fellowships.

Many blessings...Kevin, as you serve Our Lord and Saviour...Jesus Christ to the Korean people. They will be blessed with your eagerness, knowledge, and most of all...your passion to lead lost souls to the Kingdom of Heaven.

candlelight

P.S. ~ Please feel free Bro.'s Jerry's or anyone else? to fill in the scriptures, or add or change...I will not be offended in the slightest. I get you guys. You are brutally honest...as I would have it. Always giving us what we NEED not necessarily what we WANT. :thumb That's why I am here at OB...to learn.

To correct what I said...here. I WAS raised without prayer in the Public school system growing up. Due to Ms. Madeline O'Hare...and, her group of Atheists...I was an unfortunate soul that was raised on Evolution. You know the..."Land of the Lost"..."Planet of the Apes"...sort of thing. This was an injustice, to say the very least. How one overbearing woman can manipulate the US Supreme Court is beyond my comprehension? It also reminds me of Roe vs. Wade....Oh, yeah...that is for another thread. We Americans have done this to ourselves! It is long overdue that we stand up for our God given rights under the Constitution of the USA. Look up what our "Founding Fathers" really stood for, not this slander that they spew out all across the globe. World Wide Web = 666 in the Hebrew language. :thumbdown It has affected us more than any one (except God Almighty) will ever know. Please check out as many sites on what Our Consitution says about "Freedom of Religion". You will find...from the right sources that...this was set up originally so that the state would stay out of the church business. Not the other way around...like they love to make us believe. Sorry, for those that know this already! It is just a crying shame...that we... as believers have let this atrocity occur for so long. :sad

candlelight

P.S. ~ I have a deep burden for lost souls. :sad :pray Don't we all? :wave:

[Jerry]

I don't have a problem with you calling me names. I guess the problem I have is that instead of answering the question you retreat to name calling. It's nothing more than a calloused way of saying "I don't know what I'm talking about but I'm just going to keep believeing what I want no matter what."

This was my statement: Thinking that Anglicanism and Baptists are the same doctrinally is wishful thinking and shows either an ignorance of one or both.

If I had said you were ignorant or an ignoramus, that would be name calling. I stated you had a lack of knowledge on an issue. Perhaps a dictionary and an encyclopedia would help.

[Guest Guest]

I found a website when I was looking for more books on Christian history. It is "focus on the Family" Dr. James Dobson. I did a search, so I will have to find the site tomorrow. Anyway, he was stating that God alllowed the sins of King Henry VIII to repeat the abominations of the Vatican. The Anglican church...according to Dobson's information, is a continuation of the Vatican.

What I can't understand is why we as believers have to question oneanother so much. I realize that people need convincing, but doesn't the lost world make us question enough? I have been asked to "prove my sources" and that is alright. I will do that, b/c I realize that we aren't speaking face to face. However, the last time I had to "prove" myself was in a court of law with my ex-husband years ago. I believe that Satan is having a "hay day" over all of this w/ us Christians. I know that Christ doesn't want this bickering or confusion among the brethren. The KJV Bible is proof enough! My pastor talks about "Spiritual Gifts" and he is amazed at how many people don't know their own spiritual gifts...b/c they haven't been taught properly. I took a "Spiritual Gifts" test upon my salvation (at the women's center)...and, believe me, it is an eyeopener. We can "try" to get along and work in harmony with the brethren if we understand oneanother's "Spiritual Gifts". I am still learning my hubby's strengths and weaknesses. Shouldn't we learn to love people where they are at? Everyone has their strengths to contribute to the "Body of Christ". JMO is all. :thumb

candlelight

P.S. ~ Please don't cast any stones. :smile This is not directed at anyone...just "food for thought".

[nymusicman]

What I can't understand is why we as believers have to question oneanother so much.

From what I've been understanding, especially moving from agnosticism (didn't really practice it, just was unsure about God [i think evolution had a lot to do with this)] to pentecostal to baptist, it's because depending on you listen to, there seem to be multiple views of history. That is why most people need sources.

[kevinmiller]

1 Corinthians 14 doesn't speak at all about propheCy - it uses the word' date=' [i']propheSy, which means to preach or witness.

1 Corinthians 13 states this:

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

So there is at least one passage that speaks of the signs gifts being of a temporary nature. Also, all the instructions in 1 Corinthians 14 regarding tongues fit for foreign languages being used in the church. In fact, there are some references that can only fit foreign languages - you can't learn a supernatural gift (that God quite clearly states He didn't give to everyone in 1 Corinthians 12:29-30), but you can learn a foreign language.

It isn't saying that gifts are of a temporary nature. It's saying that while all of those things will and must cease, love will endure forever. It was placing emphasis on love's enduring nature by showing the temporality of things such as knowledge and prophecy. Prophecy must be fulfilled, knowledge eventually becomes useless, and tongues must eventually cease being spoken. Those verses in no way indicate that spiritual gifts have ceased today. If you believe that that which is perfect is the Bible being completed, then can you tell me which part of the Bible was "in part," which means incomplete or imperfect before John finished Revelation?

I think that claiming that they are foreign languages is a stretch, to say the least. How can you pray in an unknown tongue and you yourself not know what you are saying? There's no way I could ever pray in Chinese. I'd have to learn it first and then I would know what I was saying. Paul very clearly said that he would not know what he was saying because it was his Spirit that prayed. Also, I find it extremely extremely hard to believe that the people in the church were all babbling away in foreign languages and claiming them as spiritual gifts. The proper way to use a foreign language in church? I don't see 1 Corinthians 14 meaning that. :frog

Acts 2 speaks about tongues unknown to the speakers - languages that they did not know previously. 1 Corinthians 14 speaks about human languages unknown to the hearers.

You say human languages and I'm sure you did that to place emphasis on the fact that you believe them to be of an earthly source. However, that is never stated in the passage and is in direct contradiction to verse 2. "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh NOT unto men, but unto God: for NO MAN understandeth him; however in the SPIRIT he speaketh mysteries."

That tongue was not a human language.

[kevinmiller]

I found a website when I was looking for more books on Christian history. It is "focus on the Family" Dr. James Dobson. I did a search, so I will have to find the site tomorrow. Anyway, he was stating that God alllowed the sins of King Henry VIII to repeat the abominations of the Vatican. The Anglican church...according to Dobson's information, is a continuation of the Vatican.

What I can't understand is why we as believers have to question oneanother so much. I realize that people need convincing, but doesn't the lost world make us question enough? I have been asked to "prove my sources" and that is alright. I will do that, b/c I realize that we aren't speaking face to face. However, the last time I had to "prove" myself was in a court of law with my ex-husband years ago. I believe that Satan is having a "hay day" over all of this w/ us Christians. I know that Christ doesn't want this bickering or confusion among the brethren. The KJV Bible is proof enough! My pastor talks about "Spiritual Gifts" and he is amazed at how many people don't know their own spiritual gifts...b/c they haven't been taught properly. I took a "Spiritual Gifts" test upon my salvation (at the women's center)...and, believe me, it is an eyeopener. We can "try" to get along and work in harmony with the brethren if we understand oneanother's "Spiritual Gifts". I am still learning my hubby's strengths and weaknesses. Shouldn't we learn to love people where they are at? Everyone has their strengths to contribute to the "Body of Christ". JMO is all. :thumb

candlelight

P.S. ~ Please don't cast any stones. :smile This is not directed at anyone...just "food for thought".

I agree with you. I'm sure there are many things on which we may not completely agree, but I would hope that any of us on here could have tremendous fellowship together as brothers and sisters in Christ regardless of minor things on which we disagree.