Advanced Revelation

[John81]

A very interesting thread! I've just spent almost an hour reading 10 pages here and checking out links. Now I'm tired!

I do believe the KJB is perfect and the translators had to have been moved by God to give us a perfect translation.

[Jerry]

The Bible teaches the original prophets were moved (ie. carried along) by God when originally giving the Word of God - it does not teach that a translator must also be moved along to be able to translate. The words were given by inspiration - the words are still living and inspired - they never lost their inspiration; therefore we don't need a RE-inspired Bible. Any true translation of the Scriptures is just as inspired as the preserved texts. We don't need RE-inspired translators (and the Bible does not teach that either). All Scripture is given by inspiration of God - that includes copies and translations (which is what Timothy had in his day) - therefore since the King James Bible is Scripture, it is inspired (not re-inspired).

[Anon]

The Bible teaches the original prophets were moved (ie. carried along) by God when originally giving the Word of God - it does not teach that a translator must also be moved along to be able to translate. The words were given by inspiration - the words are still living and inspired - they never lost their inspiration; therefore we don't need a RE-inspired Bible. Any true translation of the Scriptures is just as inspired as the preserved texts. We don't need RE-inspired translators (and the Bible does not teach that either). All Scripture is given by inspiration of God - that includes copies and translations (which is what Timothy had in his day) - therefore since the King James Bible is Scripture, it is inspired (not re-inspired).

:goodpost:

[John81]

How can anyone accurately translate the pure Word of God unless the Lord's has a hand in it?

Some folks use the word "inspire" in different ways so I'm not using that term myself to try and avoid confusion.

What I do believe is that the translators of the KJB were assisted, guided, aided, helped, or otherwise moved by the Holy Ghost to ensure the KJB translation was done properly so as to pass on the true, pure and perfect Word of God in the KJB.

[pneu-engine]

How can anyone accurately translate the pure Word of God unless the Lord's has a hand in it?

Some folks use the word "inspire" in different ways so I'm not using that term myself to try and avoid confusion.

What I do believe is that the translators of the KJB were assisted, guided, aided, helped, or otherwise moved by the Holy Ghost to ensure the KJB translation was done properly so as to pass on the true, pure and perfect Word of God in the KJB.

Not in the same way as the original writers, John.

Those writers of the original autographs were actually Holy Spirit controlled to the point that their shoulder, arm, wrist, hand and finger muscles were under complete control and operation of the Holy Spirit. I.E. Consider how the wind moves leaves on the trees. If the wind is strong enough it can even pull the whole tree out of the ground (e.g. a tornado). Anyway, it's the very same word (i.e. "moved").

The translators back in the early 1600s were Holy Spirit taught, enlightened, and guided even as the H.S. guides and teaches you and me. What I see also is that the Holy Spirit "hand-picked" those men way ahead of time. It was Kitagrl in a previous post in another thread that pointed out that those translators were men of God worthy of note. They were wonderfully brilliant. At least one of those men was so intelligent that he could translate and write Hebrew with one hand, and at the very same time translate and write Greek with the other hand. I have not heard of that calibre of individual today.

[John81]

Not in the same way as the original writers, John.

Those writers of the original autographs were actually Holy Spirit controlled to the point that their shoulder, arm, wrist, hand and finger muscles were under complete control and operation of the Holy Spirit. I.E. Consider how the wind moves leaves on the trees. If the wind is strong enough it can even pull the whole tree out of the ground (e.g. a tornado). Anyway, it's the very same word (i.e. "moved").

The translators back in the early 1600s were Holy Spirit taught, enlightened, and guided even as the H.S. guides and teaches you and me. What I see also is that the Holy Spirit "hand-picked" those men way ahead of time. It was Kitagrl in a previous post in another thread that pointed out that those translators were men of God worthy of note. They were wonderfully brilliant. At least one of those men was so intelligent that he could translate and write Hebrew with one hand, and at the very same time translate and write Greek with the other hand. I have not heard of that calibre of individual today.

I think we are in agreement here as what you say here is what I was trying to say above.

[Will]

Not in the same way as the original writers, John.

Those writers of the original autographs were actually Holy Spirit controlled to the point that their shoulder, arm, wrist, hand and finger muscles were under complete control and operation of the Holy Spirit. I.E. Consider how the wind moves leaves on the trees. If the wind is strong enough it can even pull the whole tree out of the ground (e.g. a tornado). Anyway, it's the very same word (i.e. "moved").

The translators back in the early 1600s were Holy Spirit taught, enlightened, and guided even as the H.S. guides and teaches you and me. What I see also is that the Holy Spirit "hand-picked" those men way ahead of time. It was Kitagrl in a previous post in another thread that pointed out that those translators were men of God worthy of note. They were wonderfully brilliant. At least one of those men was so intelligent that he could translate and write Hebrew with one hand, and at the very same time translate and write Greek with the other hand. I have not heard of that calibre of individual today.

You believe that the Holy Spirit used "automatic writing" to write the Bible? I respectfully disagree. I believe the Holy Spirit allowed these men to write it their own way, but still have every word given by the Holy Spirit. Otherwise the entire Bible would have been written in the exact same style. But even reading in English, you can tell this isn't so. Read the writings of John(John, 1-3 John, and Revelation) and compare to the writings of Paul. You can see how the two of them had different styles of writing. I believe God told them what to write, but still allowed them control over how they were writing. This does not diminish the word of God though, it only demonstrates God's power.

[dwayner79]

You believe that the Holy Spirit used "automatic writing" to write the Bible? I respectfully disagree. I believe the Holy Spirit allowed these men to write it their own way, but still have every word given by the Holy Spirit. Otherwise the entire Bible would have been written in the exact same style. But even reading in English, you can tell this isn't so. Read the writings of John(John, 1-3 John, and Revelation) and compare to the writings of Paul. You can see how the two of them had different styles of writing. I believe God told them what to write, but still allowed them control over how they were writing. This does not diminish the word of God though, it only demonstrates God's power.

:thumb indeed.

[Anon]

I do not believe God controlled the fingers of the writers. One of the main proofs against this is the fact that Paul had to dictate most of his letters due to his eye problem.


However to say the KJV translators were inspired would be to leave the door open for any further inspiration at any given time. We have to say either the Bible was complete after Revelation...or that its a work in progress....there's no in between. The KJV translators were not the "missing link" between the "evolution" of the Bible.

[kevinmiller]

:goodpost: Will and Suzy.

[Will]

I do not believe God controlled the fingers of the writers. One of the main proofs against this is the fact that Paul had to dictate most of his letters due to his eye problem.


However to say the KJV translators were inspired would be to leave the door open for any further inspiration at any given time. We have to say either the Bible was complete after Revelation...or that its a work in progress....there's no in between. The KJV translators were not the "missing link" between the "evolution" of the Bible.

I'd agree. I tend to think this teaching is more in line with Pentecostal theology than Baptist. As I stated before, in Scripture, the authors always knew when they were speaking under inspiration. We see that over and over. And yet, there's no indication at all that the KJV translators believed that at all. In fact, I believe that they may have stated that they felt the translation could use improvement which would negate any notion of them being under inspiration. I could be wrong about that statement, I'll have to look that up somewheres.

[Kubel]

I believe the Holy Spirit allowed these men to write it their own way, but still have every word given by the Holy Spirit... I believe God told them what to write, but still allowed them control over how they were writing. This does not diminish the word of God though, it only demonstrates God's power.

Well typed.

How can anyone accurately translate the pure Word of God unless the Lord's has a hand in it?

Translation. Printing. Singing. Preaching. Witnessing. It's all work by believers in Christ, and I believe they are all done the same way: Mans will striving to do Gods will.

We have to say either the Bible was complete after Revelation...or that its a work in progress....there's no in between. The KJV translators were not the "missing link" between the "evolution" of the Bible.

I agree. Star Trek: The Next Revelation opens the door for future new revelations. All we have to do is say someone is inspired by the Holy Ghost, and they can come out with some new series from God that makes everything we currently have worthless. What authority do we have to say this? It basically rejects the texts we have now and have held to in the past- in favor of something totally new, different, and said to be from God. I find the doctrine to be totally contrary to Fundamental beliefs. Something so radical must have scriptural support.

Forgive me for adding politics to a discussion of faith- but bringing in advanced revelation to ones faith is like the US signing in the patriot act. It seems so fine and safe for us today, but it opens the door to things in the future that we really don't want to have happen.

[dwayner79]

I agree. Star Trek: The Next Revelation opens the door for future new revelations. All we have to do is say someone is inspired by the Holy Ghost, and they can come out with some new series from God that makes everything we currently have worthless. What authority do we have to say this? It basically rejects the texts we have now and have held to in the past- in favor of something totally new, different, and said to be from God. I find the doctrine to be totally contrary to Fundamental beliefs. Something so radical must have scriptural support.

Forgive me for adding politics to a discussion of faith- but bringing in advanced revelation to ones faith is like the US signing in the patriot act. It seems so fine and safe for us today, but it opens the door to things in the future that we really don't want to have happen.

Joseph Smith anyone...

[Pastor Matt]

I believe the Holy Spirit allowed these men to write it their own way, but still have every word given by the Holy Spirit... I believe God told them what to write, but still allowed them control over how they were writing. This does not diminish the word of God though, it only demonstrates God's power.

Good point. Otherwise it would have been Mechanical Inspiration.

[John81]

I agree the original writers of Scripture were not made robots to write the Word of God. The Holy Spirit inspired them but it was they themselves who did the writing; or dictating in some cases.

I also agree the Bible was complete upon John's inspired finish of Revelation.

It's also my belief that God, through the Holy Spirit, brought forth the men who translated the KJB at that very time and for that very purpose and that He guided them in the process.