The Bible and Biblical Issues

[Madeline]

:peek:I was thinking of taking a break from biblical discussions for a while. Maybe it's just me and perhaps I'm the only one who sees it this way, but there seems to be a common phenomenon of which this seems to be a part, namely, the "one-issue sledge-hammer person". That is to say, I cannot tell you how many of these folks who have gotten some unbiblical idea or another into their head and cannot and will not let it go. Just by way of an example of someone who had a long debate with a person who was convinced - despite all evidence to the contrary - that the Israelites crossed the Red sea to the east of Sinai instead of the west. I cannot even begin to tell you how much written dialogue there was, and the person never would actually listen to or respond to the logical points and evidence the other person kept offering up. These persons seem to be gadflies put here to test our faith and to hone our spiritual judgment. They are good for us in the sense that they help us to get perspective and come to realise more quickly what may be true and what on the other hand is so ridiculous on the face of it that it just does not pass the spiritual "sniff test" (i.e., our consciences with the Spirit's help and our residual understanding of scripture generally tells us early on that this does not fit in spite of protestations to the contrary). What these people and their teachings seem to have in common are:

1) a morbid fixation on a single usually largely irrelevant issue (at least one which their emphasis is clearly blowing out of all proportion).
2) an unwillingness to engage in a serious conversation wherein they actually listen to and consider what someone else says.
3) a clear tendency to anger, sarcasm, and ad hominem attacks which is indicative of pride and carnality rather than a desire for the truth.
4) a clear tendency to using their "revelation" as a means of hammering down other people and their opinions.
5) a clear desire for recognition and attention.

Taken together, it is always wise to give such persons a very wide berth in my experience concerning biblical discussions. What do y'all think? :smile

Proverbs 9:8 - Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

***edited for bad grammar :ooops ***

Love,
Madeline

[matie-k]

It's not just you Madeline. Good thoughts.. especially about sarcasm.

[Guest Guest]

:peek:I was thinking of taking a break from biblical discussions for a while. Maybe it's just me and perhaps I'm the only one who sees it this way, but there seems to be a common phenomenon of which this seems to be a part, namely, the "one-issue sledge-hammer person". That is to say, I cannot tell you how many of these folks who have gotten some unbiblical idea or another into their head and cannot and will not let it go. Just by way of an example of someone who had a long debate with a person who was convinced - despite all evidence to the contrary - that the Israelites crossed the Red sea to the east of Sinai instead of the west. I cannot even begin to tell you how much written dialogue there was, and the person never would actually listen to or respond to the logical points and evidence the other person kept offering up. These persons seem to be gadflies put here to test our faith and to hone our spiritual judgment. They are good for us in the sense that they help us to get perspective and come to realise more quickly what may be true and what on the other hand is so ridiculous on the face of it that it just does not pass the spiritual "sniff test" (i.e., our consciences with the Spirit's help and our residual understanding of scripture generally tells us early on that this does not fit in spite of protestations to the contrary). What these people and their teachings seem to have in common are:

1) a morbid fixation on a single usually largely irrelevant issue (at least one which their emphasis is clearly blowing out of all proportion).
2) an unwillingness to engage in a serious conversation wherein they actually listen to and consider what someone else says.
3) a clear tendency to anger, sarcasm, and ad hominem attacks which is indicative of pride and carnality rather than a desire for the truth.
4) a clear tendency to using their "revelation" as a means of hammering down other people and their opinions.
5) a clear desire for recognition and attention.

Taken together, it is always wise to give such persons a very wide berth in my experience concerning biblical discussions. What do y'all think? :smile

Proverbs 9:8 - Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

***edited for bad grammar :ooops ***

Love,
Madeline

So are you saying that if we only would see it your way we would all be better off?

Wil

[John the Baptist]

When I first started to college I had a very liberal JEDP professor who did not believe the miracles in the Old Testament. He said well God did not divide the Red sea it was the sea of reeds and it was swallow and the Jews just went across the shore when the tide receded. After class some of us were setting in a little hamburger place, eating lunch. One old boy said will if my Lord can drowned all those Egyptians in 6 inches of water, Praise the Lord! Ha, Ha, Ha. (This actually happened, I am not making it up. This was in 1970 at Union University in Jackson, Tennessee.)

God Bless
John

[IM4given]

So are you saying that if we only would see it your way we would all be better off?

Wil

:amen:

[kevinmiller]

:peek:I was thinking of taking a break from biblical discussions for a while. Maybe it's just me and perhaps I'm the only one who sees it this way, but there seems to be a common phenomenon of which this seems to be a part, namely, the "one-issue sledge-hammer person". That is to say, I cannot tell you how many of these folks who have gotten some unbiblical idea or another into their head and cannot and will not let it go. Just by way of an example of someone who had a long debate with a person who was convinced - despite all evidence to the contrary - that the Israelites crossed the Red sea to the east of Sinai instead of the west. I cannot even begin to tell you how much written dialogue there was, and the person never would actually listen to or respond to the logical points and evidence the other person kept offering up. These persons seem to be gadflies put here to test our faith and to hone our spiritual judgment. They are good for us in the sense that they help us to get perspective and come to realise more quickly what may be true and what on the other hand is so ridiculous on the face of it that it just does not pass the spiritual "sniff test" (i.e., our consciences with the Spirit's help and our residual understanding of scripture generally tells us early on that this does not fit in spite of protestations to the contrary). What these people and their teachings seem to have in common are:

1) a morbid fixation on a single usually largely irrelevant issue (at least one which their emphasis is clearly blowing out of all proportion).
2) an unwillingness to engage in a serious conversation wherein they actually listen to and consider what someone else says.
3) a clear tendency to anger, sarcasm, and ad hominem attacks which is indicative of pride and carnality rather than a desire for the truth.
4) a clear tendency to using their "revelation" as a means of hammering down other people and their opinions.
5) a clear desire for recognition and attention.

Taken together, it is always wise to give such persons a very wide berth in my experience concerning biblical discussions. What do y'all think? :smile

Proverbs 9:8 - Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

***edited for bad grammar :ooops ***

Love,
Madeline

I don't always agree with you on everything but you made some excellent points. Good post.

[John81]

Yes indeed, this does occur.

I don't think withdrawing completely from these issues is the best course. Perhaps better for us to make our points with Scripture and/or verifiable facts, and then if some refuse to even consider or address what's been put forth, to then withdraw from the thread.

We are to put forth the light of truth, but we are not commanded to continue until all accept the truth. If there are some who reject, ignore or are not yet ready to face the truth, then there is no point in repeating it over and over again. We are to do what is right (such as putting forth the truth) and then leave the rest in God's hands.


Not being Madeline I can't say with 100% certainty, but I don't believe this thread is about "everyone should see it Madeline's way." This thread seems to be about cases where the Scriptural evidence and/or verifiable factual evidence is clear on an issue yet there are some who still wish to argue for an opposing viewpoint without considering the evidence against their viewpoint.

For example: The Bible is very clear that only men are to be pastors. However, there are those who yet continue to argue that there is nothing wrong with women being pastors.

On issues where there is not a clear biblical command, or some other clear factual evidence, then there is room for discussion and different points of view. However, when there is a clear biblical command or some other clear factual evidence, then we should accept that rather than argue for something that goes contrary to Scripture and the facts at hand.

[IM4given]

[quote="John81"]Yes indeed, this does occur.

I don't think withdrawing completely from these issues is the best course. Perhaps better for us to make our points with Scripture and/or verifiable facts, and then if some refuse to even consider or address what's been put forth, to then withdraw from the thread.

We are to put forth the light of truth, but we are not commanded to continue until all accept the truth. If there are some who reject, ignore or are not yet ready to face the truth, then there is no point in repeating it over and over again. We are to do what is right (such as putting forth the truth) and then leave the rest in God's hands.


Not being Madeline I can't say with 100% certainty, but I don't believe this thread is about "everyone should see it Madeline's way." This thread seems to be about cases where the Scriptural evidence and/or verifiable factual evidence is clear on an issue yet there are some who still wish to argue for an opposing viewpoint without considering the evidence against their viewpoint.

For example: The Bible is very clear that only men are to be pastors. However, there are those who yet continue to argue that there is nothing wrong with women being pastors.

On issues where there is not a clear biblical command, or some other clear factual evidence, then there is room for discussion and different points of view. [size=150][b]However, when there is a clear biblical command or some other clear factual evidence, then we should accept that rather than argue for something that goes contrary to Scripture and the facts at hand[/b][/size].[/quote]

:amen: This is called accepting the Word of God as our [u][b]Final Authority.[/b][/u] There are some members of OB who absolutely flat out do not believe that the KJV Bible is the Final Authority - and that is where most of our problems seem to stem from. When scriptures are presented that clearly illustrate the point, then they want to entertain us for the next 20 or 30 pages to argue that what the Bible SAYS isn't actually what it MEANS. They want to fuss, fight, and argue (some say they are merely "debating" which is a nicer term than "fighting") to show that they know what the Bible means, when by their very own posts they have proven that they don't know or refuse to accept the scriptures as they were written. This is all done in the name of learning Biblical truths? Why should anyone get angry at us when we accept the doctrine of Final Authority over their peculiar "instruction"?

More on Doctrine of Final Authority http://biblebelievers.com/Stephens002.html

[HappyChristian]

[quote="John81"]Yes indeed, this does occur.

I don't think withdrawing completely from these issues is the best course. Perhaps better for us to make our points with Scripture and/or verifiable facts, and then if some refuse to even consider or address what's been put forth, to then withdraw from the thread.

We are to put forth the light of truth, but we are not commanded to continue until all accept the truth. If there are some who reject, ignore or are not yet ready to face the truth, then there is no point in repeating it over and over again. We are to do what is right (such as putting forth the truth) and then leave the rest in God's hands.


Not being Madeline I can't say with 100% certainty, but I don't believe this thread is about "everyone should see it Madeline's way." This thread seems to be about cases where the Scriptural evidence and/or verifiable factual evidence is clear on an issue yet there are some who still wish to argue for an opposing viewpoint without considering the evidence against their viewpoint.

For example: The Bible is very clear that only men are to be pastors. However, there are those who yet continue to argue that there is nothing wrong with women being pastors.

On issues where there is not a clear biblical command, or some other clear factual evidence, then there is room for discussion and different points of view. However, when there is a clear biblical command or some other clear factual evidence, then we should accept that rather than argue for something that goes contrary to Scripture and the facts at hand.[/quote]

:goodpost:


The Bible tells us to "Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man." That includes keyboards! :lol:

There are times when tempers flare because someone is arguing just for the sake of arguing, or, just as bad, twisting what is being said instead of reading, or arguing for something that is clearly not Scriptural - rebuke is then needed. But when someone is honestly putting forth what they believe, and feel they have Biblical support for it, the presentation should be done with grace, and the receiving and/or countering should be done with grace.

[matie-k]

The Bible tells us to "Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man." That includes keyboards!

There are times when tempers flare because someone is arguing just for the sake of arguing, or, just as bad, twisting what is being said instead of reading, or arguing for something that is clearly not Scriptural - rebuke is then needed. But when someone is honestly putting forth what they believe, and feel they have Biblical support for it, the presentation should be done with grace, and the receiving and/or countering should be done with grace.

Good post. I learned a valuable lesson on another forum I used to be on with a bunch of young women. One girl said something that was just plainly rude to another girl, and so another one or two girls called her on what she said. She came back with "oh well I was only joking - guess you just have to know my 'humor'!" I realized then that we can't expect everyone to "virtually see" our facial expressions or hear the inflections in our "virtual voices" or understand our 'humor' from afar, and so we should take extra care not only about our words, but how we come across to another. I know sometimes in the past I've let my sarcasm run away with me online and have regretted it.

[suitman]

Yeah ettiquete is a big problem in debates cause people dont see each other face to face and feel seperated. They forget that a human being is reading what they type and so lose control. and then when it starts the cant accept truth and instead argue away against the truth that is the bible(not just the KJB bible )

[Madeline]

I've learned to keep my cool, even when someone posts slanderous accusations and express nothing but contempt and bitterness. :smile

[IM4given]

Yeah ettiquete is a big problem in debates cause people dont see each other face to face and feel seperated. They forget that a human being is reading what they type and so lose control. and then when it starts the cant accept truth and instead argue away against the truth that is the bible (not just the KJB bible )

I hope you do not mind that I brought your font up to larger size - my eyes are very weak and I could not see what you wrote.

[suitman]

lol just making a statement that wont end up with another debate that will end up going in circles. :Green

[IM4given]

I think that all life's difficulties seem to eventually boil down to the single issue of "Final Authority" - if one accepts that the KJV Bible is the Final Authority, then that is all that is needed. If one needs to find out what God thinks about something, read the Bible, study and pray, that is as simple as it can get.

When one does not accept the KJV Bible as the Final Authority, and starts digging through several other MVs, things get all confused, because none of them will agree with each other. God is not the author of confusion.

Not all Baptists believe in the doctrine of Final Authority, but as an Independent Fundamental Baptist, I do. When God says it, I believe it, and that settles it. :Bible: