God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation?

[282Mikado]

:amen: Jerry, that link was outstanding! What a great clarification of the issue. I also enjoyed the music :thumb

[John the Baptist]

If you read that verse in context it is talking about the antichrist and those with the spirit of antichrist. We are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. Rom 8:29 The verse in II Thess 2 states we are chosen through what? Sanctification!!! Once again we are not chosen to be saved we are chosen through sanctification. We accept the Lord Jesus Christ. We are then sanctified and God conforms us to the image of His Son.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Like verse 30 you cannot through it out. Predestination is to salvation and to final salvation and glorification. Clearly we are justifyed when we trust Christ.

God Bless
John

[heartstrings]

So not many on this forum need take heed of the verse after all then, because there's no danger that their name will be removed, no matter how many words they take away from the book. But that's a different discussion I guess...

Here is the verse again...

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Alimantado,
I must confess, I don't understand the fill implication of that verse. But I don't see how that a true believer would even want to tamper with the Word of God.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. What is "the record" God gave? Well, what is the only record we have today?
1Jo 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The Bible is God's written record. You don't even have to physically remove printed words from the Bible to deny it. All you have to do to is deny that the Lord Jesus Christ is the only way to eternal life. If a person does that, they are on their way to Hell.

[282Mikado]

Had some good preaching last night. Not on Predestination, but as we went through the following verses I thought how they seem to go against predestination:
Luke 14:16-24
16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Now on the surface this speaks of the Jews rejecting God's gift and so he next approaches the Gentiles. But look at how Jesus approaches the Gentiles. The Master does not say go to "this" one or to "these particular". He basically says go to any you can find, they are ALL welcome to the feast. Looking at verse 24 it seems that the ones that were actually predestined (bidden) are all going to be left out! I'm not saying from that last comment that Calvinists will be left out and I apologize if that's the way it sounded, but these verses sure do preach good against predestination. AMEN?

[heartstrings]

Had some good preaching last night. Not on Predestination, but as we went through the following verses I thought how they seem to go against predestination:
Luke 14:16-24
16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Now on the surface this speaks of the Jews rejecting God's gift and so he next approaches the Gentiles. But look at how Jesus approaches the Gentiles. The Master does not say go to "this" one or to "these particular". He basically says go to any you can find, they are ALL welcome to the feast. Looking at verse 24 it seems that the ones that were actually predestined (bidden) are all going to be left out! I'm not saying from that last comment that Calvinists will be left out and I apologize if that's the way it sounded, but these verses sure do preach good against predestination.
AMEN?

:thumb Salvation is to whosoever will.
"Predestined" and "Predestinated" is biblical. But it means something totally different from what Calvinists say.

[lettheredeemedsayso]

Salvation is to whosoever will.
"Predestined" and "Predestinated" is biblical. But it means something totally different from what Calvinists say.

Amen. God created everyone with a free will to accept or reject His Son, Jesus Christ.

[lettheredeemedsayso]

Amen. God created everyone with a free will to accept or reject His Son, Jesus Christ.

Luk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Luk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

[John the Baptist]

:thumb Salvation is to whosoever will.
"Predestined" and "Predestinated" is biblical. But it means something totally different from what Calvinists say.

The ones who made excuse show that they were not elected to salvation. The parable is about the Jews rejecting the Lord and him going to the Gentiles. Whosoever will may come. Only God knows who the elect are, it is not our business to focus on election but on sharing the gospel with all. This passage nowhere, is going against election.

[282Mikado]

John,

Is it really your position that a loving, Righteous God would deliberately create Billions of people specifically to go to hell with no chance of salvation? That is exactly what election means. Not only are some elected to salvation, but many more are elected to be damned to hell's fire. With never a chance. Not very loving. :sad

[John81]

John,

Is it really your position that a loving, Righteous God would deliberately create Billions of people specifically to go to hell with no chance of salvation? That is exactly what election means. Not only are some elected to salvation, but many more are elected to be damned to hell's fire. With never a chance. Not very loving. :sad

Is that really that much different than creating billions of people He knows will not come to Christ so they will end up in Hell?

I don't know the mind of God, but I trust that whatever His purposes in all this, they are just.

[Jerry]

Is it really your position that a loving, Righteous God would deliberately create Billions of people specifically to go to hell with no chance of salvation?

Is that really that much different than creating billions of people He knows will not come to Christ so they will end up in Hell?

There is a HUGE difference between these two positions. One is creating man with a choice, knowing that many will reject Him - but still giving them that choice. The other is creating man without giving him a choice at all.

[John81]

There is a HUGE difference between these two positions. One is creating man with a choice, knowing that many will reject Him - but still giving them that choice. The other is creating man without giving him a choice at all.

But if you KNOW the choice they will make, are they really being given a choice?

[Jerry]

That is a silly question - God did not force someone to accept Him or reject Him - so yes, they were given a choice. Do you think Adam and Eve were forced to eat the fruit - or were they given a choice? God set the plan of salvation in motion at the foundation of the world - before Adam and Eve sinned, and He still let them make that choice. God's foreknowledge of someone doing something does not equal His ordaining that someone would or would not do that thing.

[Madeline]

oops...wrong thread :ha

[John81]

I never said anything about force.

If I set before my child two options, but I know already which one they are going to take, am I really giving them an option? Perhaps from their perspective there might seem to be a choice, but from my perspective, there really is no choice since I already know they will reject the one and grasp the other.