God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation?

[Madeline]

"Overcoming" is not an ongoing thing; it is the final victory.
To "overcome" is the final act of any fight.
When you "overcome" something, you have already overwhelmed, defeated and conquered it.

1) to conquer
a) to carry off the victory, come off victorious
1) of Christ, victorious over all His foes
2) of Christians, that hold fast their faith even unto death against the power of their foes, and temptations and persecutions
3) when one is arraigned or goes to law, to win the case, maintain one's cause
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi ... rongs=3528

The Bible says that "faith is the victory". When you are born of God, the victory has already been won. 1 John 5:4

Nope..."overcometh" is an ongoing action. Our victory has already been won through Christ, however, it is Christ working through us which gives us the victory over our struggles. A child of God WILL overcome (continually) the world. The bible clearly teaches that a born again believer has dominance over the flesh through the Spirit of God.

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

"doth not" tense is poiei, which is the present active tense of poieo. In other words, the verb poieo (which means "to make") is in the present tense (as in this verse) which denotes an ongoing action. Those who have been truly born again will "continually" overcome. Your post is a perfect example of what happens when we fail to rightly divide the Word of God.

Love,
Madeline

[heartstrings]

Nope..."overcometh" is an ongoing action. Our victory has already been won through Christ, however, it is Christ working through us which gives us the victory over our struggles. A child of God WILL overcome (continually) the world. The bible clearly teaches that a born again believer has dominance over the flesh through the Spirit of God.

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

"doth not" tense is poiei, which is the present active tense of poieo. In other words, the verb poieo (which means "to make") is in the present tense (as in this verse) which denotes an ongoing action. Those who have been truly born again will "continually" overcome. Your post is a perfect example of what happens when we fail to rightly divide the Word of God.

Love,
Madeline

By you definition of "overcometh", are you saying that you continually "overcome" at all times? And by quoting 1 John 3:9, do you mean that you never sin?

The Bible plainly teaches that a born again believer has two natures; The New Nature and the Sin Nature......Galatians 5, Romans 7.
When you get "in the flesh" are you in "overcoming" mode?
What happens if you die suddenly while you are "in the flesh", and not in "continually overcoming" mode?

[John the Baptist]

By you definition of "overcometh", are you saying that you continually "overcome" at all times? And by quoting 1 John 3:9, do you mean that you never sin?

The Bible plainly teaches that a born again believer has two natures; The New Nature and the Sin Nature......Galatians 5, Romans 7.
When you get "in the flesh" are you in "overcoming" mode?
What happens if you die suddenly while you are "in the flesh", and not in "continually overcoming" mode?

You do not understand the present tense of the Koine Greek. It is on going action. This is what the Bible says in the original language. Continually overcoming does not means we live a perfect life. But through the grace of God we can live an overcoming life. This does not mean we don't yield to sin many times in our lives.

Here is what Barnes says:

To him that overcometh - Greek, ?To him that gains the victory, or is a conqueror? - ?? ??????? t? nik?nti. This may refer to any victory of a moral character, and the expression used would be applicable to one who should triumph in any of these respects:
(a) over his own easily-besetting sins;
( over the world and its temptations;
© over prevalent error;
(d) over the ills and trials of life, so as, in all these respects, to show that his Christian principles are firm and unshaken.
Life, and the Christian life especially, may be regarded as a warfare. Thousands fall in the conflict with evil; but they who maintain a steady warfare, and who achieve a victory, shall be received as conquerors in the end.

Adam Clark says this:

To him that overcometh - To him who continues steadfast in the faith, and uncorrupt in his life; who faithfully confesses Jesus, and neither imbibes the doctrines nor is led away by the error of the wicked; will I give to eat of the tree of life. As he who conquered his enemies had, generally, not only great honor, but also a reward; so here a great reward is promised ?? ???????, to the conqueror:

God Bless
John

[heartstrings]

You do not understand the present tense of the Koine Greek. It is on going action. This is what the Bible says in the original language. Continually overcoming does not means we live a perfect life. But through the grace of God we can live an overcoming life. This does not mean we don't yield to sin many times in our lives.

Here is what Barnes says:

To him that overcometh - Greek, ?To him that gains the victory, or is a conqueror? - ?? ??????? t? nik?nti. This may refer to any victory of a moral character, and the expression used would be applicable to one who should triumph in any of these respects:
(a) over his own easily-besetting sins;
( over the world and its temptations;
© over prevalent error;
(d) over the ills and trials of life, so as, in all these respects, to show that his Christian principles are firm and unshaken.
Life, and the Christian life especially, may be regarded as a warfare. Thousands fall in the conflict with evil; but they who maintain a steady warfare, and who achieve a victory, shall be received as conquerors in the end.

Adam Clark says this:

To him that overcometh - To him who continues steadfast in the faith, and uncorrupt in his life; who faithfully confesses Jesus, and neither imbibes the doctrines nor is led away by the error of the wicked; will I give to eat of the tree of life. As he who conquered his enemies had, generally, not only great honor, but also a reward; so here a great reward is promised ?? ???????, to the conqueror:

God Bless
John

What about the man in 1 Corinthians chapter 5? Was he "continually overcoming"? No, but he had the Spirit of God living in his heart.

Don't get me wrong; the Bible also teaches that the wages of sin is death. This man got what was coming to him. God will not let his children get by with sin. But suppose you die like that? What about Lot? Was he "continally overcoming"? What about King Saul? How about Samson? Ananias and Saphira?
Jesus will say the following to them too.....

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Yes we fight spiritual battle, yes we are tempted by the world, the flesh and the devil. But our salvation has already been won. When you overcome something, that is the end, you have already won, the struggle is over. Faith is the victory that "overcometh". When I was born of God, Faith won the victory and overcame the world right then and there. I am already seated in the Heavenlies waiting for the redemption of my body. Ephesians2:4-6, Romans 8:23 What I do in my body from then on, determines my rewards. Annaias and Saphira, the man in 1 Corinthians 5, and "just Lot", obviously got few rewards...but they still overcame. How? Faith.....They had the Spirit of God living in their hearts, the new man, they were born of God.

[John the Baptist]

What about the man in 1 Corinthians chapter 5? Was he "continually overcoming"? No, but he had the Spirit of God living in his heart.

Don't get me wrong; the Bible also teaches that the wages of sin is death. This man got what was coming to him. God will not let his children get by with sin. But suppose you die like that? What about Lot? Was he "continally overcoming"? What about King Saul? How about Samson? Ananias and Saphira?
Jesus will say the following to them too.....

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Yes we fight spiritual battle, yes we are tempted by the world, the flesh and the devil. But our salvation has already been won. When you overcome something, that is the end, you have already won, the struggle is over. Faith is the victory that "overcometh". When I was born of God, Faith won the victory and overcame the world right then and there. I am already seated in the Heavenlies waiting for the redemption of my body. Ephesians2:4-6, Romans 8:23 What I do in my body from then on, determines my rewards. Annaias and Saphira, the man in 1 Corinthians 5, and "just Lot", obviously got few rewards...but they still overcame. How? Faith.....They had the Spirit of God living in their hearts, the new man, they were born of God.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

"He that overcometh" in the KJV the translation of the verb to "overcome" is translated "overcometh" in 16th Century English this meant to continually or repeatedly over come. It is present tense.

You are misunderstanding the nature of overcoming. Overcoming is not just a once for all event. The truth is we are to live a over coming life now and we will finally overcome in the end.

1Jo 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

Here John is not talking about final salvation. You have triumphed over the assaults of the wicked one, over the passions of youth, you have resisted the temptations of ambition and sensual passions ect. We do overcome in our daily christian life. The verb to "overcome is ?????????? it is in the perfect tense in the Greek. The idea is completed action with continuing results. John is saying You have overcome the evil one and are still overcoming him.

God Bless
John

[Jerry]

Yes, every true believer is an overcomer in Christ, and overall every true believer continually overcomes in Christ as they walk with Him - but that does not mean that they overcome every battle and trial they face along the way (ie. in the sense that they are victorious in every temptation - sometimes we fail), but the victory is available in Christ and through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

[John the Baptist]

Yes' date=' every true believer is an overcomer in Christ, and overall every true believer continually overcomes in Christ as they walk with Him - but that does not mean that they overcome every battle and trial they face along the way (ie. in the sense that they are victorious in every temptation - sometimes we fail), but the victory is available in Christ and through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.[/quote']

I agree with you Jerry. I fail God every day. I did not mean to imply that a true Christian never fails nor sins. But what I believe the tense of the verb in Rev. 3:5 is saying is that we will keep on keeping on for Jesus. Yes we will fall, but through the aid of the Holy Spirit, We will get up and keep on living for God. Yes we fail time and time again. But the failures should become less as we grow and mature in the Lord. But we will not continually live a life of sin.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

But of course this verse means we will not continue in sin because his seed abides in us. We have a new nature and it will grieve the Spirit when we sin. This verse clearly does not mean once you are saved you sin no more.

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

God bless
John

[heartstrings]

This is true, the flesh, the old nature, can and does sin. Read Romans 7:19-22

The verse does not mean "will not continue is sin".
Ananias and Saphira continued in sin and God killed them for it. Same for the man in 1 Corinthians 5. But their "inner man" was sinless....they were born of God. Forget the Greek and read the plain English.....

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The Bible is pretty plain right here. "doth not commit" and "Cannot sin" simply means what it says.
The new nature, born of God, cannot sin. End of story.
Again, read Romans 7:19-22

So when Mr. Fornicator(from 1 Corinthians 5) entered the Pearly Gates after being "turned over to Satan" for "the destruction of the flesh".....his "spirit was saved".
Was this man "continually overcoming" when Satan killed him and God took him home? Absolutely not. So how could this dude be one of those that "overcometh" in Revelation 3:5?? Because he was born of God. 1 John 5:1-5 His name was not blotted out of the book of life because his "inner man" "born of God" "overcame".

Another thing, when this man had believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as his personal savior, he became one of those "predestined to be conformed". Why? Because God will conform us to the image of Christ, if He has to kill us and take us home to do it. This fornicator's life was cut short, but his "spirit was saved". He is now conformed to the image of Christ.
So "Predestined to be conformed" simply means what it says. Does not mean "Predestined to got o heaven".

Once again. The Bible says that Jesus died for all....
The Bible says it is not His will that anyone perish.
The Bible says that His will is that all be saved.
The Bible says He died for every sin and every sinner.

[John the Baptist]

heartstrings:

The verse does not mean "will not continue is sin".
Ananias and Saphira continued in sin and God killed them for it. Same for the man in 1 Corinthians 5. But their "inner man" was sinless....they were born of God. Forget the Greek and read the plain English.....

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The Bible is pretty plain right here. "doth not commit" and "Cannot sin" simply means what it says.
The new nature, born of God, cannot sin. End of story.
Again, read Romans 7:19-22

Forget the Greek and read the plain English.....

This is a foolish statement. What language do you think th New Testament was written in? 1John 3:9, "Whosoever has been born of God does not continually practice sin," this is what the Greek text says. This is the difference between a lost person and a saved person. When a christian sins it grieves the Holy spirit and we will not be happy in sin. If we persist God will deal with us. It means that a Christian cannot live a life of sin. A lost person can live a life in sin.

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Clearly a Born again Christian is a sinner. To read into 1John 3:9 that the KJV In 1John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" means the Christin does not sin in is new nature is eisegesis. It is reading into the text something that is not their. "doth not commit sin" in the KJV is present tense. The KJV means does not practice sin, if you understand 16Century English.

God Bless
John

[lettheredeemedsayso]

Even the Apostle Paul talked about struggling with the flesh. Our flesh will not be redeemed until we go to be with the Lord. Check out I Corinthians 15:51-58.

This chapter in I John I believe is saying we sin not because for the saved person all sin was covered by the blood of Christ. All our sin was laid on Jesus. He was our substitute. No longer is sin charged to our account. We ask forgiveness because it grieves the Holy Spirit and hinders our relationship with Jesus. This is also why when we sin God will chastise us if we continue in sin. He is our Father and we are His children and He guides us and directs us.

[heartstrings]

Even the Apostle Paul talked about struggling with the flesh. Our flesh will not be redeemed until we go to be with the Lord. Check out I Corinthians 15:51-58

Absolutely true. Also read Romans 7:19-22

John the Baptist,
I don't read or speak Greek. But I put my trust in the One who was able and faithful to perfectly preserve His word, in English, for English speaking people.

Please answer three questions
1. What does "cannot sin" mean, in plain English?"

2. Please tell me if Ananias and Saphira and the man in 1 Corinthians 5 were "continuing in sin" or not when God killed them?

3. Were they "born of God"?

[John the Baptist]

Absolutely true. Also read Romans 7:19-22

John the Baptist,
I don't read or speak Greek. But I put my trust in the One who was able and faithful to perfectly preserve His word, in English, for English speaking people.

Please answer three questions
1. What does "cannot sin" mean, in plain English?"

2. Please tell me if Ananias and Saphira and the man in 1 Corinthians 5 were "continuing in sin" or not when God killed them?

3. Were they "born of God"?

1. What does "cannot sin" mean, in plain English?"

The phrase in 1 John 3:9 does not say cannot sin, but in the KJV says "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" You are basing your interpretation on your understanding of the English. "doth" in the KJV is present tense. It is in harmony with what the Greek says, but it is not clearly bringing out the since of the Greek text.

1Jo 3:9 No one who has been born from God practices sin, because God's seed abides in him. Indeed, he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born from God. (ISV) This is what the Greek is saying.

The born again Christian cannot life a life of sin.

I have clarified with statement in past post. It doe not mean that the Christian does not commit acts of sin. As you know we do commit acts of sin.

2. Please tell me if Ananias and Saphira and the man in 1 Corinthians 5 were "continuing in sin" or not when God killed them?

Yes, Ananias and Saphira Were commiting sin. I never said that Christians never sin. 0

In interpreting the Bible the Greek is the primary basis of authority concerning the Scripture. The authors of the New Testament Original wrote it in Koine Greek. Every team of Bible translators have

translated according to the original languages and compared their translation to the original languages.

I am not going to argue about this. I sense you like to argue. This is all I have to say on this issue.

God Bless
John

[heartstrings]

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

[Madeline]

Revelation 21:6,7 - And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

I believe the key words here are "athirst, freely, and overcometh." When the entire bible is taken in context, then it's much easier to "rightly" divide the Word of truth.

The gift of Eternal Life is free (Jn.4:10; Acts 8:20; 2 Cor.9:14,15; Eph.2:8). Anyone who thirsts (spiritually) will never thirst again (You know you're going to look for water if you're thirsty ;-)...), but believers will never thirst again (Jn.7:38; cf. Is.12:3; 43:20; 44:3; 55:1, etc..). Those who are born of God will "overcome" because Christ is in us (Jn. 16:33; 1 Jn.5:4,5; cf. 1 Jn.2:13; 4:4).

Love,
Madeline

[heartstrings]

Everybody is thirsty.
Lost and saved alike
But only a Believer
Knows the One
Who satisfies


Psa 42:1