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God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation?


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To me, such matters brings it all down to the fact that we can't know the mind of God.

While God knows the beginning from the end, and He has an eternal plan, we can't even begin to fathom this.

What might seem unfair to us, might just seem obviously fair once we are in glory with the Lord.

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We are not missing anything when we believe and accept what the Bible says. We are missing something when we go and speculate and ignore what the Bible says.

I for one appreciate the choice God gave me to be saved - and I am glad I responded positively to that choice. I am sorry for those who still reject the Saviour after being given the opportunity to hear the truth. Whatever someone's response to the Gospel - God gave them the freewill to accept or reject the Saviour. I am glad in eternity, even the lost will be able to say, God knew I would reject Jesus, but He still gave me opportunities to be saved - now I have no one to blame but myself for being in Hell.

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We are not missing anything when we believe and accept what the Bible says. We are missing something when we go and speculate and ignore what the Bible says.

I for one appreciate the choice God gave me to be saved - and I am glad I responded positively to that choice. I am sorry for those who still reject the Saviour after being given the opportunity to hear the truth. Whatever someone's response to the Gospel - God gave them the freewill to accept or reject the Saviour. I am glad in eternity, even the lost will be able to say, God knew I would reject Jesus, but He still gave me opportunities to be saved - now I have no one to blame but myself for being in Hell.


Amen!
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To me, such matters brings it all down to the fact that we can't know the mind of God.

While God knows the beginning from the end, and He has an eternal plan, we can't even begin to fathom this.

What might seem unfair to us, might just seem obviously fair once we are in glory with the Lord.


Even lost sinners usually know what is right and just. They know what is fair and unfair. But sometimes I wonder about professing Christians who can't seem to understand what the Bible plainly says. God really is more than fair, even by man's standards. Jesus died for every man; He died for whosoever will.
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John,

Is it really your position that a loving, Righteous God would deliberately create Billions of people specifically to go to hell with no chance of salvation? That is exactly what election means. Not only are some elected to salvation, but many more are elected to be damned to hell's fire. With never a chance. Not very loving. :sad


Excellant point!!! Hell was not created for man. It was created for the devil and his angels.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
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Let me wax philisophical here for a moment. We know that God, being outside time, knows what the overall outcome will be of man and this world (hence the plan of salvation & book of revelation, etc...), but let's say that the minutiae, like those specific individuals that are saved, are left to random or psuedo-random chance, hence making salvation a valid choice.

I'm not saying this is what I firmly believe, but I have batted the idea around a little. Is there hard scripture to refute such an idea? Is it outside the realm of possibility? It does open up wide all those verses of "whosoever", and "God is not willing that any should perish".

To me it also seems a more logical view of a loving God that truly desires to fill His kingdom with those who made their own personal choice to love Him. Isn't that what the choice is all about?

If you love someone set them free. If they comeback they are yours forever. If not it was never meant to be.

For those of you that are rock throwers, try to keep them to smaller stones. I'm not trying to be blasphemous, just trying to sharpen my iron a little. Who knows, I may be on to something true here.

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Even lost sinners usually know what is right and just. They know what is fair and unfair. But sometimes I wonder about professing Christians who can't seem to understand what the Bible plainly says. God really is more than fair, even by man's standards. Jesus died for every man; He died for whosoever will.


Considering I have not stated a position on this topic, but have only asked questions, I'm not sure as to why this response is as it is.

Some have stated in this thread they believe God would be unfair or unjust if he created people knowing they were bound for Hell. When He created the angels, He knew that some of them would end up in Hell. Does that make God unfair or unjust?

When God created man, he knew some of them (actually, most of them) would be bound for Hell. Does that make God unjust or unfair?

Myself, I don't think so, because God knows everything and I have faith that His way is right.

So, I'm not sure why you claim that some Christians just don't understand what the Bible plainly says, when the Bible doesn't go into any great detail about the angels and why God created them without a soul and why they have no chance for redemption but once fallen are doomed to Hell.
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Is that really that much different than creating billions of people He knows will not come to Christ so they will end up in Hell?

I don't know the mind of God, but I trust that whatever His purposes in all this, they are just.


According to your prognosis only few are elect. Only
God knows the number of the elect but I think the number is much larger than what you think. God will turn no one away that comes to Him through Christ. If God did not elect some none would come to Him. All the billions will not be saved regardless of the what view one holds concerning election. Only those who trust christ. Which I believe will be an innumerable mass through the ages.

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

God bless
John
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Some have stated in this thread they believe God would be unfair or unjust if he created people knowing they were bound for Hell. When He created the angels, He knew that some of them would end up in Hell. Does that make God unfair or unjust?


I don't think anyone in this thread thinks God is unfair or unjust. I think we are all just trying to wrap our finite minds around those things in God's word that WEfind problematic or confusing. This is then where we get into the various differences of opinion as we see throughout this thread (Calvinist, whosoever, etc...) and many other threads. I don't believe God will condemn us simply because we disagree on this issue or many others (pre-millenialism vs a-millenialism for instance). We'll all find out the truth in the end, AMEN? Provided we even care at that point! :saint

Having said this, are there any takers on my philisophical question from above?

Thanks
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According to your prognosis only few are elect.
Only God knows the number of the elect but I think the number is much larger than what you think.
True, God knows everything that is and wll ever happen.

God will turn no one away that comes to Him through Christ.

This is true

If God did not elect some none would come to Him.
This is false doctrine.

All the billions will not be saved regardless of the what view one holds concerning election. Only those who trust christ. Which I believe will be an innumerable mass through the ages.

Only those who trust in the real Christ are going to make it. The real Jesus died for the whole world. John 3:16. The divine will of the real Jesus is that all should be saved and none be lost 2 Peter 3:9. Do you have the right Jesus? 2Corinthians 11:4

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


This is true; but thank God He said He would draw all men to Himself. John 12:32
I wasn't looking for God; He was looking for me, because He loves me...and He loves everyone.
God said that the Holy Spirit would convince the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement.
God's righteousness isn't something we can't understand. God's righteousness is all bound up in His great love. His righteousness is a manifestation of His boundless love. WHen the Holy Spirit draws a person to Jesus, He(the Holy Spirit) reveals the righteousness of God: He reveals to that person how wonderful and loving Jesus is. A "Jesus" who loves some but hates others is not righteous. Sir, eternal life is freely offered for everyone.
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I don't think anyone in this thread thinks God is unfair or unjust. I think we are all just trying to wrap our finite minds around those things in God's word that WEfind problematic or confusing. This is then where we get into the various differences of opinion as we see throughout this thread (Calvinist, whosoever, etc...) and many other threads. I don't believe God will condemn us simply because we disagree on this issue or many others (pre-millenialism vs a-millenialism for instance). We'll all find out the truth in the end, AMEN? Provided we even care at that point! :saint

Having said this, are there any takers on my philisophical question from above?

Thanks


Woooooaaaah Hoss!

That's not my quote...I'm in the opposite camp!
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[quote="heartstrings"][quote="282Mikado"][quote="heartstrings"]
Some have stated in this thread they believe God would be unfair or unjust if he created people knowing they were bound for Hell. When He created the angels, He knew that some of them would end up in Hell. Does that make God unfair or unjust? [/quote]

I don't think anyone in this thread thinks God is unfair or unjust. I think we are all just trying to wrap our finite minds around those things in God's word that [b]WE[/b]find problematic or confusing. This is then where we get into the various differences of opinion as we see throughout this thread (Calvinist, whosoever, etc...) and many other threads. I don't believe God will condemn us simply because we disagree on this issue or many others (pre-millenialism vs a-millenialism for instance). We'll all find out the truth in the end, AMEN? Provided we even care at that point! :saint

Having said this, are there any takers on my philisophical question from above?

Thanks[/quote]

Woooooaaaah Hoss!

That's not my quote...I'm in the opposite camp![/quote]

Woooooaaaah Hoss!

That's my quote...but I'm not in any camp.

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