Are Denominations/Affiliations a Good Thing?

[kevinmiller]

Are denominations good for the Body of Christ?

[Jerry]

I believe they are a good thing because it identifies where someone stands doctrinally. How a particular denomination started may or may not have been a good thing, but they are necessary. I would hate to move into a new community and have no way to gauge ahead of time which churches are most in line with where I stand doctrinally.

[kevinmiller]

But don't they serve as a means of dividing the Body of Christ when all Christians are one through Christ?

[Guest Guest]

Yes and no, they are good because they let you weed out certain false doctrines, for example if a church has IFB on the sign I have a fair idea what they believe, I know they probably are not going to be baptising babies etc., but in a perfect world, like heaven, there would be no need for denominations because false doctrine wouldn't be an issue. Till then, they serve a purpose.

[Jerry]

But don't they serve as a means of dividing the Body of Christ when all Christians are one through Christ?

The Bible teaches professing believers are to be united in truth - not just be united for the sake of being united. Yoking up together with the lost and with those with unsound theology has done more harm to Christendom than probably anything else.

[kevinmiller]

I don't think that doctrine ought to divide Christians, though. The Bible says that we are all a part of God's Body. Essentially, we are all a part of the same Church, anyway. A denomination is just a facade to segregate the believers even though the church consists of anytime believers are meeting together of any denomination. I believe that separation from other believers has led to a loss of profitable ministries in the Christian field. It has resulted in cliques in Baptist circles where IFB's have a very limited sphere of influence because they won't associate with those of differing doctrine. It is often nearly impossible to work in a ministry in a country where God has called you without working with those of differing beliefs.

For example, when I go to Korea, I'll be working with a man who goes to a church where I'm not sure of the specific doctrine but it has charismatic elements to it and I'll be working with another guy who goes to a Methodist church. I work with both of them now, though not in person(obviously) and I teach children that attend churches that range from Baptist to charismatic. What I have found is the capability to be a powerful influence and have sweet fellowship with other Christians regardless of some of those different beliefs. I'm greatly looking forward to going to church in Korea where I'll attend my friends' Presbyterian church. I'm not going because of the doctrine, I'm going for the fellowship and edification. I'm going because I know that God can use me there.

I'm still not sure what the purpose of separating is. Is it because you are afraid that you will change your own doctrine? Is it because you feel inclined to debate with every believer that believes differently? I can't figure out the reasoning behind separation on denominational lines that has made it appear so dangerous. There is a big difference between compromise and fellowship. I can work with and fellowship with a Methodist without believing their doctrine or participating in a Christian rock concert.

As further argument to all being a part of the same Church which would supersede any denominational differences, let me explain it this way. I think we all agree that people are the church, not the building. So then we must ask ourselves the question, "what people?" Is it the people who have joined the church? Joining the church cannot be found in Scripture. There was no such thing as a person joining a specific church, simply being a part of one. So, if people are the church and church membership is nonexistent, spiritually, then wherever Christians are gathered together, that is the Church. I'm sure you don't ask members of your church to give a doctrinal statement before joining, and yet you fellowship with them. Why? Because they are part of your church and yet it is not contained within the walls of the church building or within the confines of your church group. A church isn't a denomination, a church is a gathering together of believers. We've stuck the church in the building without realizing it. If we truly believe that the church is the people then we must accept the fact that any saved person is a part of the Church.

[Anon]

What's that verse...."and the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch".

That was a denomination.

Then down through history they have been known as Anabaptists and whatever else.. (I'm not good at church history).

There has always been a group that believes the Bible basics. Paul said often not to allow in ANY doctrine that they had not taught. There usually has to be some sort of name defining the group that believes only Biblical doctrine.

It sounds like you want to discuss local vs. universal church. Which I believe in the local church, and a universal body of believers. "Church" is an assembly which is impossible worldwide. And you have to be baptized at a specific location, tithe at a specific location, and if necessary, be disciplined out of a specific location. In Acts they were "added to the church", the church in Jerusalem.

That's local church doctrine in a nutshell. :lol

[rancher824]

I'm still not sure what the purpose of separating is. Is it because you are afraid that you will change your own doctrine? Is it because you feel inclined to debate with every believer that believes differently? I can't figure out the reasoning behind separation on denominational lines that has made it appear so dangerous. There is a big difference between compromise and fellowship. I can work with and fellowship with a Methodist without believing their doctrine or participating in a Christian rock concert.

Why separate? Well, the more you feed the body bad food, the more sick you will become. Take the old adage "an apple a day keeps the doctor away." It is very true that feeding on foods that are good for us will keep us healthy. But what if you are eating rotten apples? Will that keep the doctor away? No! Perhaps get him there sooner. My point is that doctrine is found in the Bible. We are to feed on God's word. If the doctrine does not agree with the Bible, it is rotten, and will make us sick. Also, perhaps I am stong enough (not on my power) to not accept the false teachings of so many religions today. I could go every sunday and listen to those sermons and not let it creep into my mind. But if I have a small child with me, what will they accept?? Will they learn truth in the sunday school class? If I have to take them home and explain everything they were told is wrong they will loose faith in either me or the church or both. Mixing in with false doctrine is very dangerious. As for the denominations thing, it does as stated before give a way to help find like minded believers. But at the same time I know of some IFB churches that I would not set foot inside of because of the false doctrine. We need the denominations to help guide, but we must also keep our eyes open!!!

[Jerry]

You're not sure of the purpose of separation? How about simple obedience to what God has commanded.

You can't expect God to bless your spiritual endeavours if you refuse to do things the way He has set down in His Word - and it is God Himself that commands us to separate from false teachers, false brethren, false doctrine. You can be as piuos as you like - but it comes down to simple obedience or disobedience. You working together with anyone regardless of their beliefs is disobeying God's Word. And the verses on separation have been posted countless times on these boards, so you are without excuse, except for the excuse that you didn't want to obey - which I don't believe God will accept.

As far as denominations go, there were denominations in the Bible - and Jesus did not condemn them. What He condemned was their hypocrisy, their false teachings, and their disobedience to His Word.

[Jerry]

I'm sure you don't ask members of your church to give a doctrinal statement before joining' date=' and yet you fellowship with them. Why?[/quote']

Actually, every church I've been a member of, I had to agree to their doctrinal statement - I even have to do that with the Gospel Mission where I work at. Otherwise there is chaos and anything goes.

[Anon]

Kevin TBH while reading your posts, esp in this thread, I feel like I can faintly hear the serpent in the garden saying, "Yea, hath God said....?"

[kevinmiller]

What's that verse...."and the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch".

That was a denomination.

Then down through history they have been known as Anabaptists and whatever else.. (I'm not good at church history).

There has always been a group that believes the Bible basics. Paul said often not to allow in ANY doctrine that they had not taught. There usually has to be some sort of name defining the group that believes only Biblical doctrine.

It sounds like you want to discuss local vs. universal church. Which I believe in the local church, and a universal body of believers. "Church" is an assembly which is impossible worldwide. And you have to be baptized at a specific location, tithe at a specific location, and if necessary, be disciplined out of a specific location. In Acts they were "added to the church", the church in Jerusalem.

That's local church doctrine in a nutshell. :lol

No offense, but I believe it's a bit weak. Being called Christians at Antioch was hardly a denomination. It was something that the world called followers of Christ. Throughout the New Testament, denominations are never mentioned by Christians themselves. They were simply a part of the Body of Christ. After that, you get into church history which has zero bearing on what we practice today since what we do today ought to have direct roots in the Bible and nothing else.

Baptism does not make a person a member of a specific church, which is why it is not required for joining a church if you have already been baptized once. And I agree, there is a structure for local church leadership. But, there is also the Church as a body of believers that we are all a part of if we have partaken of the grace of God in repentance and salvation. In Acts, they were added to the church, the church of God. Not sure how it proves a local-church-only doctrine. How can you mesh that with the Scripture that says that the Church is the Body of Christ? How many bodies does He have?

Post subject: Re: Are Denominations/Affiliations a Good Thing? Reply with quote
kevinmiller wrote:
I'm still not sure what the purpose of separating is. Is it because you are afraid that you will change your own doctrine? Is it because you feel inclined to debate with every believer that believes differently? I can't figure out the reasoning behind separation on denominational lines that has made it appear so dangerous. There is a big difference between compromise and fellowship. I can work with and fellowship with a Methodist without believing their doctrine or participating in a Christian rock concert.

Why separate? Well, the more you feed the body bad food, the more sick you will become. Take the old adage "an apple a day keeps the doctor away." It is very true that feeding on foods that are good for us will keep us healthy. But what if you are eating rotten apples? Will that keep the doctor away? No! Perhaps get him there sooner. My point is that doctrine is found in the Bible. We are to feed on God's word. If the doctrine does not agree with the Bible, it is rotten, and will make us sick. Also, perhaps I am stong enough (not on my power) to not accept the false teachings of so many religions today. I could go every sunday and listen to those sermons and not let it creep into my mind. But if I have a small child with me, what will they accept?? Will they learn truth in the sunday school class? If I have to take them home and explain everything they were told is wrong they will loose faith in either me or the church or both. Mixing in with false doctrine is very dangerious. As for the denominations thing, it does as stated before give a way to help find like minded believers. But at the same time I know of some IFB churches that I would not set foot inside of because of the false doctrine. We need the denominations to help guide, but we must also keep our eyes open!!!

I believe that there is a balance. I would not take my kids to a Presbyterian church on a regular basis because of such issues as having to explain things and them having young and impressionable minds. I would still fellowship with them, however. There is a difference between sitting under their teaching and ministering with them. For me, it's not a big deal since I am not fluent in Korea, I won't understand most of the sermons. lol But, I can gain edification and fellowship there, which is one of the primary reasons for the church.

You're not sure of the purpose of separation? How about simple obedience to what God has commanded.

You can't expect God to bless your spiritual endeavours if you refuse to do things the way He has set down in His Word - and it is God Himself that commands us to separate from false teachers, false brethren, false doctrine. You can be as piuos as you like - but it comes down to simple obedience or disobedience. You working together with anyone regardless of their beliefs is disobeying God's Word. And the verses on separation have been posted countless times on these boards, so you are without excuse, except for the excuse that you didn't want to obey - which I don't believe God will accept.

As far as denominations go, there were denominations in the Bible - and Jesus did not condemn them. What He condemned was their hypocrisy, their false teachings, and their disobedience to His Word.

I believe that comes from a misinterpretation of Scripture. You have posted Scripture saying that we should separate from an unrepentant Christian who is acting in gross sin. No one has ever ONCE posted a verse to say that we are to separate from a born-again believer because of doctrine. Paul was constantly dealing with it in the NT and he never advocated separation from those believers and he also did not separate since he could talk about their generosity or fellowship in the same book where he reproves their doctrinal errors.

But God hasn't just blessed the endeavors, they are ordained of Him. Everything that has occurred has happened by the manifest will of God. It has been amazing to see God bring things together that never could have transpired without His leading. He has blessed the work so far and I know without a doubt that He is leading me in the path where He would have me go. If I didn't KNOW that this was where He was leading, I wouldn't be following this path.

Could you name some of those denominations in the Bible?

Actually, every church I've been a member of, I had to agree to their doctrinal statement - I even have to do that with the Gospel Mission where I work at. Otherwise there is chaos and anything goes.

Interesting, I don't ever remember having encountered that.

Kevin TBH while reading your posts, esp in this thread, I feel like I can faintly hear the serpent in the garden saying, "Yea, hath God said....?"

Ouch, that hurt...
I'm not sure where that came from. :badday:

[Anon]

Baptism does not make a person a member of a specific church, which is why it is not required for joining a church if you have already been baptized once. And I agree, there is a structure for local church leadership. But, there is also the Church as a body of believers that we are all a part of if we have partaken of the grace of God in repentance and salvation. In Acts, they were added to the church, the church of God. Not sure how it proves a local-church-only doctrine. How can you mesh that with the Scripture that says that the Church is the Body of Christ? How many bodies does He have?

The church will not be a universal assembly until the rapture.

Each book of the Bible was a letter written to a LOCAL church. When reading, you MUST bear that in mind.


Interesting, I don't ever remember having encountered that.

Most people who come here ask for a doctrinal statement before they are willing to join.



Ouch, that hurt...
I'm not sure where that came from.
I don't mean to hurt, and I think you know me enough by now to know I like you, I think you are a great guy...but your posting today and of recent times has a faint flavor of change in it. Can't help but think "Yea, hath God said..?" Its very subtle, but its there. Sorry.

[Guest Guest]

"Titus 3:10-11 A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

Look up what reject means, it doesn't mean just disagree with, it means to shun and avoid. There are many verses that teach separation from those that teach false doctrine... As far as what you plan to do in korea that is your business, but remember 1 Corinthians 15:33.

"Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners."

Seen it a number of times...

[kevinmiller]

The church will not be a universal assembly until the rapture.

Each book of the Bible was a letter written to a LOCAL church. When reading, you MUST bear that in mind.

They didn't have mass emails back then(lol) so Paul couldn't have sent a letter to a large group at a time, nor would he have wanted to since it would have negated the personal issues that were unique to each church in the letter.

Writing to a local church does not do away with the doctrine of a universal church as being made up of all believers. That is clearly Scriptural and the more that I have studied about the church, the more I have seen it.

I don't mean to hurt, and I think you know me enough by now to know I like you, I think you are a great guy...but your posting today and of recent times has a faint flavor of change in it. Can't help but think "Yea, hath God said..?" Its very subtle, but its there. Sorry.

I will admit that I am constantly changing. As far as I know, there has been no great change recently that I can think of. My views on the church have always been that it is in need of great reform for several months now as I have studied what the church is supposed to be. I have always associated with those of other denominations, that's nothing new. It was never taboo in our house and I'm glad because I have had tremendous blessings and opportunities through Christians of differing denominations. So, that hasn't changed either. Maybe I wasn't as vocal in the past, I don't know, but I'm still the same guy. I have also been reading a book recently that has really put a lot of my thoughts about the church into words so that probably has caused me to be more verbal. I'm not trying to sow doubt about the Bible, just trying to promote discourse that will lead us back to a right thinking about some of the doctrines of the Bible that I believe are in need of reform, that's all. :smile