Eden in Africa?

[Calvary]

Calvary' date=' the Bible does not indicate that Eden was around after the flood - only that some places were like Eden, and some people named themselves after it in some fashion - therefore not giving us a post-flood location, but a comparison.[/quote']

Well, Jerry, I disagree with you. I see the earth now as the same earth that then was, no change geographically, only the names by which men call places.
The same earth that Noah stepped off of to enter the ark was the same earth that he stepped onto from the ark.

Eden was a place in the BIble, south of Sodom (which by the way is no longer called Sodom either) it is in the area south of Laodicea (also non existent by it's biblical name), and ... well we see the idea.

God bless,
Calvary

[Madeline]

Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Eden is a name of a country in which the garden was placed. In order to locate Eden we can make a few educated guesses based upon the little information that is alotted in the scriptures.

1. Gen 13:10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.

This verse likens the Eden to the "land of Egypt". And also notice the area is Sodom, south of the Dead Sea.

2. Amo 1:5 I will break also the bar of Damascus, and cut off the inhabitant from the plain of Aven, and him that holdeth the sceptre from the house of Eden: and the people of Syria shall go into captivity unto Kir, saith the LORD.

This verse locates "The house of Eden" near Damascus. According to Ptolmey this would be south of Laodicea.

3. Isa 51:3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

Zion here is Jerusalem. It is likened to Eden.

4. 2Ki 19:12 Have the gods of the nations delivered them which my fathers have destroyed; as Gozan, and Haran, and Rezeph, and the children of Eden which were in Thelasar?

Eden again is a country near Thelasar which is the Gozan-Haran area. This is where Abram came after leaving Ur.

Getting out a map from the back of your Bible, tracing the lines to connect the dots one finds that Eden is a huge triangle shaped area with the apex at Mt Ararat and the 2 bottom corners (which form the base) will run from the Nile, straight east to Ur, at the top of the Persian Gulf.

This same area would make up the land grant given to Abraham (Genesis 15).

This same land grant will be possessed by Israel during the Millenium. (See Psalms 89:25; 2 Samuel 8:3; 1 Kings 4:20-25 and Ezekiel 44-48.

I beleive that this is where history started on this earth and where it will end.

God bless,

Calvary

There is nothing in the Bible that say for certain, but it does give us enough information to draw a pretty reasonable conclusion: Eden was located at present day Jerusalem, so I'm with you on this one. For one thing, four rivers run out of Adam and Eve's Eden, indicating that this Eden was high ground instead of a lowland place (since water runs downhill after all). The second thing to consider is that this Eden pre-dated the flood, an event of mammoth proportions when it comes the reshaping of much of the earth's surface by the mighty hydrological forces unleashed thereby (e.g., it is possible that the Grand Canyon was formed in the days following the flood by the run-off of all that water), so the fact that Jerusalem is not today extremely high, though it is higher than much of the surrounding country, is easily explainable (Jerusalem is still an elevated place, and will be much more so in the Millennium: Is.2:2). The third thing to consider is that there are actually seven Edens in the Bible, and they are all connected to the same place. The last one, the New Jerusalem, descends from heaven into the place of the penultimate one, the Millennial Jerusalem... inviting us to posit that all the Edens of scripture, from the Mountain of God whence Satan fell to our final home with the Father and the Lamb, have all been located in the exact same place, namely, Jerusalem. Science positing that human beings came out of Africa is only so much fancy. There is of course nothing like "proof" for this theory. The big problem with science today vis-a-vis faith is that science fails to distinguish between empirical conclusions and unprovable theories. If a scientist publishes something in a reputable journal the public is supposed to take it as gospel - even though of course other scientists are allowed to take issue with it in whole or in part and fully understand that at best any advance is partial and often wrong in some aspects - and that is the case with empirical research, never mind theoretical silliness like evolution. We can demonstrate gravity by dropping a pencil. We cannot demonstrate evolution, even if someone were to give us a billion dollars and the best laboratory in the world (because of course it cannot be demonstrated since there is no such thing nor has anyone ever seen any such thing or any true empirical evidence of any such thing). I remember one time someone was questioning Adam and Eve on the grounds that all the human race's chromosomes would be concentrated in just two people. But of course if a person believes evolution one has to assume that a single "human" is the origin of all our chromosomes, somehow having originated by mutation... and then somehow found something else to mate with (a tuna fish?) and the result was, miraculously, not a human-tuna or a tuna-human, but another human, enough, in fact, to perpetuate the "new species".

It takes much more faith to believe that nonsense than it ever would just to trust God.

Love,
Madeline

[Jerry]

Loadicea is in Asia - way north of Israel. Sodom was south of Israel, where the Dead Sea is now.

The Bible does not say that is where Eden was - but that the area was like Eden was.

And yes, I believe this is the same earth as before the flood - just not in the same condition.

[Jerry]

There is the Garden of Eden - some people that named themselves after Eden (ie. the children of Eden) - and one city mentioned in the Bible:

Ezekiel 27:23 Haran, and Canneh, and Eden, the merchants of Sheba, Asshur, and Chilmad, were thy merchants.

Don't know where you get seven Edens. Certainly not from the Bible.

[Calvary]

Loadicea is in Asia - way north of Israel. Sodom was south of Israel, where the Dead Sea is now.

The Bible does not say that is where Eden was - but that the area was like Eden was.

And yes, I believe this is the same earth as before the flood - just not in the same condition.

I know where Laodicea would be on a modern map.

it is in the area south of Laodicea

I said that it (Eden) was south of Laodicea.

God bless,

Calvary

[Salyan]

Doesn't the Genesis record say that four rivers were fountain-headed out of Eden? That means all four split off of one main river with a single source. I haven't heard of anyplace on the current topographical layout of this earth that has such an arrangement. The Tigris, Euphrates and Nile (if it's supposed to be one of these rivers) certainly don't share the same source -- as far as I know!
I strongly disagree with any view that claims to place Eden in any particular location, based on estimated topography. The flood was a catastrophe. The current definition for geographically-associated catastrophes is defines them as "A sudden violent change in the earth's surface or geography." If the flood was so huge as to wipe off any trace of man from the earth, wouldn't it rip apart the continents, lay down river-filling layers of sediment, and fold up new mountain ranges? For all we know, the original location of Eden is under the seabed of the Atlantic Ocean!
I would love to find some Bible verses to back up the 'hugeness' of the flood (I think they exist!), but no time now! Gotta close up the library!

[Calvary]

No, not really. It says that (Gen 2:10) "a" river went out from Eden and thence became four. Thence could be a ways down river.

The ISBE has some interesting comments on Eden.

God bless,

Calvary

[Salyan]

That's fair... the splitting of the rivers could be a ways down from Eden... but I still don't know of any area that matches that description.

[John81]

That's fair... the splitting of the rivers could be a ways down from Eden... but I still don't know of any area that matches that description.

After the massive changes caused by the flood there wouldn't be any areas now that would match such a description.

Considering God has focused upon the area of Israel specifically and the area of the Middle East in general, and given what clues Scripture does provide, it's probable Eden was located in the area we call the Middle East. It's also likely that Eden wasn't some tiny garden spot as some imagine, but more likely Eden covered a fairly large area.

[Calvary]

After the massive changes caused by the flood there wouldn't be any areas now that would match such a description.

Considering God has focused upon the area of Israel specifically and the area of the Middle East in general, and given what clues Scripture does provide, it's probable Eden was located in the area we call the Middle East. It's also likely that Eden wasn't some tiny garden spot as some imagine, but more likely Eden covered a fairly large area.

There ya go brother. That's about the sum of my surmisings. I put the triangle at about 1000 miles a side.

God bless,

Calvary