Calvinism is an incorrect understanding of soteriology

[Pastor Matt]

Poor Calvinist...they are forced to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ outside of their will.  However, I willingly do it. 

[heartstrings]

6 hours ago, Pastor Matt said:

Poor Calvinist...they are forced to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ outside of their will.  However, I willingly do it. 

Belief was totally selfish, on my part. I don't see how Calvinists can say our belief is 'taking credit" for salvation; unless they have never really been saved themselves.

[Jerry]

Belief is not defined in the Bible as any kind of work (in fact it is the opposite). It is a response on our part to what God has done and said.

[SGO]

8 hours ago, Pastor Matt said:

Poor Calvinist...they are forced to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ outside of their will.  However, I willingly do it. 

Dead man working.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:1

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 3:11

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Philippians 2:13

Praise to God!

Edited April 13 by SGO

[BrotherTony]

Dead=SEPARATED in trespasses and sin.... spiritual death is NOT the same as physical death, nor should it be treated so... only extra-biblical doctrine teaches it differently.

Edited April 13 by BrotherTony

[Jerry]

So you are just to endlessly repeat and rehash the same unbiblical junk over and over?

God tells us to repent and belief, to receive Jesus and His gift of salvation - but you’ve redefined all those verses to mean that you have no choice whatsoever and are unable to respond (even though Jesus commands the lost to do so), and God must sovereignly override your will, regenerate you first, then you can respond. Why respond then? You’re already saved, Calvin! Enjoy your sovereign election in Hell, while those of us who actually repent and consciously receive the Saviour will enjoy our eternal fellowship with Him in Heaven.

Edited April 13 by Jerry
Fixed typo

[Napsterdad]

The arguments given here against Calvinism are profound, and scripturally true. But I am a simple man and to me it all boils down to a very simple argument and verse.

If Calvinism is true, then God deliberately creates THIS person for Heaven and then He deliberately creates THAT person for hell. 1 John 4:8 tells us that God is love. I'm sure that person that the Calvinistic god deliberately created for hell sure sees the Calvinistic god as love.

I just cannot cross over that very simple hurdle. And no Calvinistic argument can change my mind. God is love. And He wants to share that love with whosever will. My loving God has NEVER created anyone for hell. If that is where you end up it was entirely your choice. 

Edited April 14 by Napsterdad

[SGO]

 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Romans 9:21-23

[BrotherTony]

This still doesn't back your pet doctrine of Calvinism. Nobody disputes the fact that God does this. It's been twisted by the Calvinists to fit their ideology. God does make vessels for honor and dishonor, but there are millions/billions that God has created, and in his omnipotence and omniscience allows their lives to play out, many hearing the gospel and receiving while others rejecting, and others still NEVER hearing. But, the Bible tells us that because of the revelation of God in creation and the order presented in it, they are without excuse. 

Edited April 15 by BrotherTony

[heartstrings]

On 4/14/2024 at 8:56 AM, SGO said:

 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Romans 9:21-23

Deuteronomy 30:19 says.....

¹⁹ I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

 

So, why did God(same God) give people the option to "choose" life if He already has made the choice for them?

[SGO]

18 hours ago, heartstrings said:

Deuteronomy 30:19 says.....

¹⁹ I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

 

So, why did God(same God) give people the option to "choose" life if He already has made the choice for them?

For it is God which worketh in you

both to will

and to do

his good pleasure.

Philippians 2:13

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, SGO said:

For it is God which worketh in you

both to will

and to do

his good pleasure.

Philippians 2:13

And this supports your doctrine how? 

Edited April 16 by BrotherTony

[Jerry]

Are you going to quote random verses now? This is not about salvation - but about God working in snd through believers. Fits in with John 15:1-5.

[Jerry]

Besides, if we are all saved by God’s sovereign with no personal choice, desire or will in the matter, why are you even trying to convince us one way or the other? We’re either destined to be saved and it will happen despite your words or we are damned anyway - and your words are useless because God sovereignly chose us to be damned and we cannot choose otherwise.  

[Jerry]

“If God wants to convert the heathen, He will do it without your help.” That was said to the great missionary William Carey. And if He wants to damn us, your words are useless AND contrary to God’s will, so you are actually opposing (Calvin’s) God’s will, if that be the case.