Saddleback Church kicked out of the Southern Baptist Convention

[Pastor Matt]

Should have been done a long time ago.

Two years ago, an Orange County megachurch took a stand that pitted it against conservative members of its denomination. It ordained three women as pastors. Now, the Southern Baptist Convention has ousted Saddleback Church, its second-largest congregation. The Lake Forest-based evangelical church, founded by popular pastor and author Rick Warren, is one of the largest churches in the United States. It was among five congregations found not to be “in friendly cooperation” with the convention because they “have a female functioning in the office of pastor,” according to a statement from Jared Wellman, chairman of the convention’s executive committee.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-02-21/saddleback-church-ousted-southern-baptist-convention-women-pastors

[TheGloryLand]

They have become a liberal Baptist church, now they have the freedom to go LGBTQ 100 percent. It’s ok, Love is Love. Lost folks
 

[BrotherTony]

14 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

Should have been done a long time ago.

Two years ago, an Orange County megachurch took a stand that pitted it against conservative members of its denomination. It ordained three women as pastors. Now, the Southern Baptist Convention has ousted Saddleback Church, its second-largest congregation. The Lake Forest-based evangelical church, founded by popular pastor and author Rick Warren, is one of the largest churches in the United States. It was among five congregations found not to be “in friendly cooperation” with the convention because they “have a female functioning in the office of pastor,” according to a statement from Jared Wellman, chairman of the convention’s executive committee.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-02-21/saddleback-church-ousted-southern-baptist-convention-women-pastors

Really? Southern Baptist Church? It's NOT a church, it's a convention. Each of their churches is just as autonomous as yours. To clarify once again, the "credentials committee" can recommend, but, they can't enforce what they decide on ANY of these autonomous churches. Each church can decide to fellowship with whomever they wish. No disrespect intended...but, I've been reprimanded, browbeat, and harassed by a moderator over this issue in the past. So, I'm making this clarification once again with a moderator who has been told the truth. Please, don't make the same mistake in calling those who fellowship together as the "Southern Baptist Convention" as the mainstream media who call us "a church." We don't have a hierarchy or governing body, though a couple of the entities that help handle some of the programs used by the churches do have a goal of trying to turn us into a "church" instead of a convention or fellowship...ie, the North American Missions Board run by Kevin Ezell. He's lied and had to go before the United States Supreme Court over this with Will McRaney. It's been referred back down to the district courts to rehash. Is it true that the "credentials committee" finally said that it was inadvisable to fellowship with Saddleback? Yes. And good for them. It's about time they did the right thing. 

Thanks,

BT

14 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

They have become a liberal Baptist church, now they have the freedom to go LGBTQ 100 percent. It’s ok, Love is Love. Lost folks
 

Saddleback has become a liberal Baptist church...those who fellowship with the SBC aren't for the most part. This shows that the 'credentials committee' is finally recommending to those who fellowship with the SBC NOT to fellowship with churches going apostate. 

[Pastor Matt]

5 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Really? Southern Baptist Church? It's NOT a church, it's a convention. Each of their churches is just as autonomous as yours.

My apologies, the "church" part in the title was a typo on my end as I was thinking about Saddlebrook when typing.

My reasoning for the topic was not about the Southern Baptist Convention, but rather Saddleback Church and how far away they fallen from being a Biblical church. 'm currently studying false teachers of the day and came across this news article. 

I'll edit the title as I meant to say convention rather than church. 

 

[BrotherTony]

2 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

My apologies, the "church" part in the title was a typo on my end as I was thinking about Saddlebrook when typing.

My reasoning for the topic was not about the Southern Baptist Convention, but rather Saddlebrook Church and how far away they fallen from being a Biblical church. 'm currently studying false teachers of the day and came across this news article. 

I'll edit the title as I meant to say convention rather than church. 

 

I had thought it might have been an unconscious slip. It happens. Blessings.

[Pastor Matt]

I'm glad to see the SBC take a stand, I just wish they would have done it sooner.

Rick Warren = False teacher

[MikeWatson1]

The SBC does get alot of flak.

I guess if it's the same sort of structure as  the ABA (American Baptist Association) and MBA (Missionary Baptist Alliance).. then I should rethink what I think about the SBC.

All I know, is the SBC has taken on the universal church idea of all redeemed being 'the church'.. I would disagree with that.. and call all redeemed part of the Family of God.. but not 'the church'

All redeemed as one church.. is something in prospect.  It isn't a current entity.  It is incomplete. It's not gonna be a church till the New Jerusalem.  A church always assembles.  Doesn't matter how large it is.  So every believer does not assemble.. therefore it is not a church.. not yet. 

Anyway.. I need to rethink about the SBC.

 

 

 

 

[swathdiver]

Saddelback church is not now and never was a scriptural New Testament Church of the kind that Christ built and died for during his earthly ministry.

[BrotherTony]

3 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

The SBC does get alot of flak.

I guess if it's the same sort of structure as  the ABA (American Baptist Association) and MBA (Missionary Baptist Alliance).. then I should rethink what I think about the SBC.

All I know, is the SBC has taken on the universal church idea of all redeemed being 'the church'.. I would disagree with that.. and call all redeemed part of the Family of God.. but not 'the church'

All redeemed as one church.. is something in prospect.  It isn't a current entity.  It is incomplete. It's not gonna be a church till the New Jerusalem.  A church always assembles.  Doesn't matter how large it is.  So every believer does not assemble.. therefore it is not a church.. not yet. 

Anyway.. I need to rethink about the SBC.

 

 

 

 

Again, it's only SOME churches who fellowship under the name SBC who hold to the idea of the "universal church." My dad and mom were members of an IFB church, and my dad held to the universal church ideology...He also held to the Gap Theory. I can understand his position on the universal church ideology, as everyone who is saved is in the "church" as a whole, and will always be at that particular time. It continues to grow by the second. I may not necessarily agree with his thoughts on it, but, they do make some sense. 

I know of many Independent, Fundamental Baptist churches that are members of a state association...We've lived in Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Georgia, and Tennessee, and there are many in each state that are doing this. 

1 hour ago, swathdiver said:

Saddelback church is not now and never was a scriptural New Testament Church of the kind that Christ built and died for during his earthly ministry.

I'm sorry, but, I can't agree with that statement. Rick Warren took the church off track many years ago, and they WERE a great church for many years.

[TheGloryLand]

15 hours ago, swathdiver said:

Saddelback church is not now and never was a scriptural New Testament Church of the kind that Christ built and died for during his earthly ministry.

He sold many books, to the Christian community, under the Baptist umbrella. Also many churches used his books and materials in their Bible studies. Some probably even here did. I never followed a MEGA Church. That’s for a different topic …

[BrotherTony]

15 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

He sold many books, to the Christian community, under the Baptist umbrella. Also many churches used his books and materials in their Bible studies. Some probably even here did. I never followed a MEGA Church. That’s for a different topic …

Are you saying that when he was claiming the name of "Baptist" he was selling the book, or that many Baptists bought it? I know his book was in play in many different denominations...I know many CoG, CoC, and Christian churches in our area were using it. I never bought a copy of his book...I borrowed one, and swore I'd never support his writing. I haven't. 

[TheGloryLand]

8 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Are you saying that when he was claiming the name of "Baptist" he was selling the book, or that many Baptists bought it? I know his book was in play in many different denominations...I know many CoG, CoC, and Christian churches in our area were using it. I never bought a copy of his book...I borrowed one, and swore I'd never support his writing. I haven't. 

Many Baptist bought it $ or build his empire.

[swathdiver]

17 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

He sold many books, to the Christian community, under the Baptist umbrella. Also many churches used his books and materials in their Bible studies. Some probably even here did. I never followed a MEGA Church. That’s for a different topic …

What is your point?  That he is legit because he published a book and foolish people bought it?  

As a babe in Christ his book wound up on my desk.  Thankfully it was never paid much mind and later learned that he didn't care one bit about the truth of God's Word.

On 2/24/2023 at 6:36 AM, BrotherTony said:

Again, it's only SOME churches who fellowship under the name SBC who hold to the idea of the "universal church." My dad and mom were members of an IFB church, and my dad held to the universal church ideology...He also held to the Gap Theory. I can understand his position on the universal church ideology, as everyone who is saved is in the "church" as a whole, and will always be at that particular time. It continues to grow by the second. I may not necessarily agree with his thoughts on it, but, they do make some sense. 

I know of many Independent, Fundamental Baptist churches that are members of a state association...We've lived in Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Georgia, and Tennessee, and there are many in each state that are doing this. 

I'm sorry, but, I can't agree with that statement. Rick Warren took the church off track many years ago, and they WERE a great church for many years.

Well, I've never seen it but admit you've been around the things of God longer than I have.  Was he on track in the 1980s or before? 

People say the same about Billy Graham, he was never correct.  

[BrotherTony]

16 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

Many Baptist bought it $ or build his empire.

Yes, and that's a very sad thing.

14 hours ago, swathdiver said:

What is your point?  That he is legit because he published a book and foolish people bought it?  

As a babe in Christ his book wound up on my desk.  Thankfully it was never paid much mind and later learned that he didn't care one bit about the truth of God's Word.

Well, I've never seen it but admit you've been around the things of God longer than I have.  Was he on track in the 1980s or before? 

People say the same about Billy Graham, he was never correct.  

I'm not exactly sure when his slide into some of these less defendable stances on doctrine started to occur. He wasn't a "national" figure as far as I can remember back in the 1980s...or at least not most of the 80s. A LOT of people give Billy Graham a bad rap...yes, he did start going off the rails...but I know of more people who have come to know the Lord through his ministry than any other ministry I know of. 

[swathdiver]

On 2/26/2023 at 4:41 AM, BrotherTony said:

Yes, and that's a very sad thing.

I'm not exactly sure when his slide into some of these less defendable stances on doctrine started to occur. He wasn't a "national" figure as far as I can remember back in the 1980s...or at least not most of the 80s. A LOT of people give Billy Graham a bad rap...yes, he did start going off the rails...but I know of more people who have come to know the Lord through his ministry than any other ministry I know of. 

Billy Graham was never on the rails.  Since the 1940s he promoted heresy after heresy.  

Since our last I've seen another clip with Warren and his theology is just plain wrong.  He was making heretical statements but it's no wonder, since he doesn't really have firm grasp of God's Word since he's loaded his brain with all those phony bibles.