Baptist are Saved by Faith, and not by Works

[TheGloryLand]

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

There are SOME Baptist churches that don't give an invitation...not many, but I do know of a few that we have visited in the past that didn't. There are many evangelical churches that also don't give an invitation, but do tell people near the end of the service that if they feel they need to make a decision and would like help or want to pray with someone to speak to the deacons or one of the church staff and they will do what they can to help. Having an invitation, when one walks up an aisle, it's not a work....I don't know where you'd get such an idea. 

I agree it is not works, sharing the gospel.

[Napsterdad]

10 hours ago, E Morales said:

The inviter, can be any man or woman being used by God. This is not works, but a person moved by the Holy Spirit. How can they hear, if there is no one sharing the gospel.  

I believe your poor use of the term "invitation" is leading to confusion. In all Baptist churches l have attended, the term "invitation" is generally accepted as what is given at the end of a service that calls those that would like to get saved, or learn more about salvation, to come to the altar (along with others that have concerns they wish to bring to the Lord). All are "invited" to the altar to satisfy their specific need or offering. Yet from this latest quote it appears that your definition of the term "invitation" is equivalent to the term "sharing the gospel". This is inaccurate. While an invitation usually follows the sharing of the gospel, it is not sharing the gospel. 

Also, sharing the gospel and invitations can be both classified as works. The difference comes from the motive behind them. JWs share their "gospel" and "invitations" so that they can be saved. There is no other way for them. As such, for the JW these are works necessary for salvation. That is bad religion.

For the true, saved, soul-winner, sharing the gospel and inviting others to receive the gift of salvation for themselves is a manifestation of our love for God and all he has done for us. It is the fruit of our salvation coming forth. While still works, from the physical conduct of the act, the motive is different and not needed for salvation: It is because we are saved that we share the gospel. 

 

[TheGloryLand]

5 minutes ago, Napsterdad said:

I believe your poor use of the term "invitation" is leading to confusion. In all Baptist churches l have attended, the term "invitation" is generally accepted as what is given at the end of a service that calls those that would like to get saved, or learn more about salvation, to come to the altar (along with others that have concerns they wish to bring to the Lord). All are "invited" to the altar to satisfy their specific need or offering. Yet from this latest quote it appears that your definition of the term "invitation" is equivalent to the term "sharing the gospel". This is inaccurate. While an invitation usually follows the sharing of the gospel, it is not sharing the gospel. 

Also, sharing the gospel and invitations can be both classified as works. The difference comes from the motive behind them. JWs share their "gospel" and "invitations" so that they can be saved. There is no other way for them. As such, for the JW these are works necessary for salvation. That is bad religion.

For the true, saved, soul-winner, sharing the gospel and inviting others to receive the gift of salvation for themselves is a manifestation of our love for God and all he has done for us. It is the fruit of our salvation coming forth. While still works, from the physical conduct of the act, the motive is different and not needed for salvation: It is because we are saved that we share the gospel. 

 

So, if I made dinner and you came by and I offered you something to eat, I guess this will be called works too. But if I don’t offer you something to eat, then it’s not works.

[BrotherTony]

55 minutes ago, E Morales said:

So, if I made dinner and you came by and I offered you something to eat, I guess this will be called works too. But if I don’t offer you something to eat, then it’s not works.

You seem to have a very poor understanding of what is a "work" and what isn't. That's not good for an "evangelist." 

[Napsterdad]

44 minutes ago, E Morales said:

So, if I made dinner and you came by and I offered you something to eat, I guess this will be called works too. But if I don’t offer you something to eat, then it’s not works.

You seem intent on forcing a camel through the eye of a needle.

Anything that can be done by a human being is a work. Making your hypothetical dinner is a work. Inviting me to eat your hypothetical dinner is a work. buying the ingredients, reading the recipe, turning on the stove, combining the ingredients, are all works. None of which are required for salvation.

Likewise, sharing the gospel is a work, giving an invitation is a work, tithing is a work, getting baptized is a work, going to church is a work, preaching is a work; none of which are required for salvation.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8-10
 

As these verses state: We are saved by grace, not of ourselves (our own works). Note it goes on to say that once we are saved (created in Christ Jesus) we are created unto good works..., that we should walk in them. When we are saved "God hath ordained (conferred holy orders on) that we should walk [in those good works that we were created unto]" (getting baptized, sharing the gospel, giving invitations, praying, preaching, etc.).

They are not required for salvation (as we are already created IN Christ Jesus), but God has called us (ordained) to walk in them.

[TheGloryLand]

7 hours ago, Napsterdad said:

You seem intent on forcing a camel through the eye of a needle.

Anything that can be done by a human being is a work. Making your hypothetical dinner is a work. Inviting me to eat your hypothetical dinner is a work. buying the ingredients, reading the recipe, turning on the stove, combining the ingredients, are all works. None of which are required for salvation.

Likewise, sharing the gospel is a work, giving an invitation is a work, tithing is a work, getting baptized is a work, going to church is a work, preaching is a work; none of which are required for salvation.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8-10
 

As these verses state: We are saved by grace, not of ourselves (our own works). Note it goes on to say that once we are saved (created in Christ Jesus) we are created unto good works..., that we should walk in them. When we are saved "God hath ordained (conferred holy orders on) that we should walk [in those good works that we were created unto]" (getting baptized, sharing the gospel, giving invitations, praying, preaching, etc.).

They are not required for salvation (as we are already created IN Christ Jesus), but God has called us (ordained) to walk in them.

I’m not sure what happened, I agree with you, all I’m saying is, a person do not have to do good works, to become a Christian, You mentioned by grace and by faith we come to Christ, and after we do good works. We don’t go around telling people they have to quit smoking or drinking, before they come to Christ, this is the job of the Holy Spirit. 

[Napsterdad]

5 hours ago, E Morales said:

I’m not sure what happened, I agree with you, all I’m saying is, a person do not have to do good works

From this quote here I do not believe you will get an argument from any regular on this forum. With that in mind I have to question why you began this thread. From the review I have made of the regulars on here I don't think any of them believe works are required to be saved. I do not see any of them telling someone they are doomed to hell because they smoke, drink, have tattoos, dress wrong, etc. I do not question that there are Baptists out there that do that, and there may have even been some on this forum from time to time; but this is true, and often more so in other denominations.

This thread would better be entitled All are saved by faith and not by works. With this I can see no argument being raised here.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Napsterdad

[Jerry]

1 hour ago, E Morales said:

We don’t go around telling people they have to quit smoking or drinking, before they come to Christ, this is the job of the Holy Spirit. 

Actually, the Bible does clearly speak against drinking in many places. It even says this:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

I would not tell someone they need to quit drinking or any sin before they come to Christ - they need to repent of the sins they are guilty of, including being a drunkard (assuming in this context that it is plain the person is a drunkard, then clearly that is one of the sins that needs to be confronted and faced with in the presentation of the Gospel) - and true repentance will result in a change of life when a person comes to faith in the Saviour. Repentance and faith are essential for salvation - and neither of these are works, but if the salvation is real/genuine, they will result in good works coming forth as a result of being born again, of being led by the Spirit of God and guided by His Word.

[TheGloryLand]

23 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Actually, the Bible does clearly speak against drinking in many places. It even says this:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

I would not tell someone they need to quit drinking or any sin before they come to Christ - they need to repent of the sins they are guilty of, including being a drunkard (assuming in this context that it is plain the person is a drunkard, then clearly that is one of the sins that needs to be confronted and faced with in the presentation of the Gospel) - and true repentance will result in a change of life when a person comes to faith in the Saviour. Repentance and faith are essential for salvation - and neither of these are works, but if the salvation is real/genuine, they will result in good works coming forth as a result of being born again, of being led by the Spirit of God and guided by His Word.

Would a person after receiving Christ, not leaving some or one bad habit, still Saved. If yes, for how long, in your opinion.

[BrotherTony]

49 minutes ago, E Morales said:

Would a person after receiving Christ, not leaving some or one bad habit, still Saved. If yes, for how long, in your opinion.

Morales...why feign ignorance here? If you're an "evangelist" you should KNOW the answers to these questions. Why would a person lose their salvation for not losing a bad habit? 

[TheGloryLand]

48 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Morales...why feign ignorance here? If you're an "evangelist" you should KNOW the answers to these questions. Why would a person lose their salvation for not losing a bad habit? 

There are some not all, that say you must preserve your faith to the end.

Just now, E Morales said:

There are some not all, that say you must preserve your faith to the end.

I like to see where some stand here. As an Evangelist rightly dividing the Word of God. B T

[BrotherTony]

9 minutes ago, E Morales said:

There are some not all, that say you must preserve your faith to the end.

I like to see where some stand here. As an Evangelist rightly dividing the Word of God. B T

You seem to be trying more to insight than to rightly divide anything. The only Baptists that I know that say that you can lose your salvation are the Free Will Baptists...and many of them don't even hold this position any longer. 

[Jerry]

I don't get what you are asking. If you are asking how long someone gets saved for - why are you posting on these boards? You say you are of the same beliefs as us, then you ask things to question all our beliefs or make it seem like Independent Fundamental Baptists are all missing the mark on so many things.

There is only one Gospel, Jesus offers only one type of salvation. Independent Fundamental Baptists (if they believe what Baptists have stood for historically) believe in that Gospel and have received eternal life through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. What Gospel are you trusting in?

[TheGloryLand]

8 hours ago, Jerry said:

I don't get what you are asking. If you are asking how long someone gets saved for - why are you posting on these boards? You say you are of the same beliefs as us, then you ask things to question all our beliefs or make it seem like Independent Fundamental Baptists are all missing the mark on so many things.

There is only one Gospel, Jesus offers only one type of salvation. Independent Fundamental Baptists (if they believe what Baptists have stood for historically) believe in that Gospel and have received eternal life through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. What Gospel are you trusting in?

We are missing the mark, if we think that we are the only ones right. We are up top with the true gospel. Can you share with me, what does the Bible mean, when the Word says, He Christ, is coming back for the seven churches. Could this mean that others also have the truth. Thanks for pointing things out, to help me.

[Napsterdad]

1 hour ago, E Morales said:

We are missing the mark, if we think that we are the only ones right. We are up top with the true gospel. Can you share with me, what does the Bible mean, when the Word says, He Christ, is coming back for the seven churches. Could this mean that others also have the truth. Thanks for pointing things out, to help me.

Are you implying then that you believe Baptists, or those on this forum, see Baptists as the only denomination having the true gospel? I do not think I have seen that view accredited on this forum. If that is not the case, then what, EXACTLY, is the reason for your antagonism? What is the specific point of this thread? Your profile says you are IFB, but yet you seem to hold a good deal of animus toward Baptists.

Going through this and other of your threads, I don't think I am the only one on here confused with the point(s) you are trying to make.