Our Appearing I'm Pondering

[1Timothy115]

I did some follow-up research and have made a decision for myself. The following scriptures have provided me with an answer I can live with until Christ tells me differently.

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. ~1 Corinthians 15:35-54

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. ~ John 4:24

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. ~ 1 John 3:2

There are many Scriptural reasons for believing that we will be raised with the same body that died. First, Christ was raised in the same body He had before He died. We know this because the tomb was empty (Luke 24:1-6) and because His resurrected body retained scars from the crucifixion (John 20:25, 27). Since Christ's resurrection is the pattern that our resurrection will follow (Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Cor. 15:49), then we will also be raised with the same body.

20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. ~ Philippians 3:20-21

26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27  Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. ~ John 20:26-27

To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: ~ Galatians 1:16  

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them. ~ Luke 24:39-43

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. ~ John 4:24

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. ~ 1 John 3:2

I will be like Him and He is God and God is a Spirit, so I'll have a Spirit body

[Jim_Alaska]

Job 19:26 (KJV) And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

[1Timothy115]

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: ~ Galatians 1:15-16

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. ~ 1 John 3:2

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. ~ John 4:24

[1Timothy115]

23 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Job 19:26 (KJV) And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

I believe Job is referring to while he still has his body, that is before the worms eat his flesh.

"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." ~ Job 42:5  

[BrotherTony]

9 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: ~ Galatians 1:15-16

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. ~ 1 John 3:2

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. ~ John 4:24

God is a spirit...yes...But, Christ still had a physical body when he was raised, ascended, etc. 

[1Timothy115]

3 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

God is a spirit...yes...But, Christ still had a physical body when he was raised, ascended, etc. 

Yes, he did.

[Jim_Alaska]

15 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

I believe Job is referring to while he still has his body, that is before the worms eat his flesh.

"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee." ~ Job 42:5  

after my skin worms destroy this body

[1Timothy115]

58 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

after my skin worms destroy this body

Read the verse you quote slowly then read the verse from later in Job I mentioned. He did see some representation  of God before the worms ate his flesh.

[Jim_Alaska]

2 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Read the verse you quote slowly then read the verse from later in Job I mentioned. He did see some representation  of God before the worms ate his flesh.

It plainly says "after" his skin worms destroy this body. So, his body at this point is destroyed. Then he goes on to say "yet" in his flesh, he will see God.

If he is going to see God in his flesh, it must be in his resurrected body. Jesus had a resurrected body of flesh that he told Thomas to touch.

[1Timothy115]

22 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

It plainly says "after" his skin worms destroy this body. So, his body at this point is destroyed. Then he goes on to say "yet" in his flesh, he will see God.

If he is going to see God in his flesh, it must be in his resurrected body. Jesus had a resurrected body of flesh that he told Thomas to touch.

I won't argue with you, I provided my extensive evidence and my reasons why I will not have a body of flesh. 

[Jerry]

1Timothy, I think you are misunderstanding Jim. The Bible teaches we will have the SAME body, but it will be glorified - it will no longer be fleshly. Jesus' still had the same body with the wound in His side and nail prints in His hands and feet, but it was glorified - it could go through walls, appear and disappear when He chose, but still eat food and drink liquids. Though, notice Jesus did not say "flesh and blood", but "flesh and bones" - all His blood was shed on the cross and is now in Heaven, as the book of Hebrews teaches us.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Job will STILL see the Lord in his same body - but it will have been resurrected and glorified, redeemed, no longer any trace of our sin nature remaining in it.

Job 19:25-27 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Though my body is consumed, rotted away, eaten by worms, YET I will still see the Lord one day in this body.

Romans 8:18-23 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

If our resurrected body was not at least in part the same body, then this passage would not make complete sense:

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

2 Corinthians 5:1-4 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

In much the same way, the new earth will be a renovated earth, with all the effects of man and of sin burned up off of it. If it is not the same earth at all, then the Bible contradicts itself when it over and over again promises the land/earth to the Jews (and even describes the territory they will possess FOREVER).

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

New in respect to freshness, not in respect to age - that is literally what the Greek word means.

[1Timothy115]

3 hours ago, Jerry said:

1Timothy, I think you are misunderstanding Jim. The Bible teaches we will have the SAME body, but it will be glorified - it will no longer be fleshly. Jesus' still had the same body with the wound in His side and nail prints in His hands and feet, but it was glorified - it could go through walls, appear and disappear when He chose, but still eat food and drink liquids. Though, notice Jesus did not say "flesh and blood", but "flesh and bones" - all His blood was shed on the cross and is now in Heaven, as the book of Hebrews teaches us.

I understand Jim. I just don't want to argue or debate. I have this settled for myself. I will reiterate my previous thoughts and since Christ’s appearance to the disciples was brought up, I’ll add a little more.

When looking at Psalms 19, it is best to read it slowly.
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: 26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: 27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

“he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth” is there any debate about this, NO, most of us know the O.T. saints by faith looked forward to Christ’s incarnation, and hope for Christ's Kingdom eternal.

“after my skin worms destroy this body” after when? (after NOW) while I’m (Job is speaking)

“yet in my flesh shall I see God” before the worms eat my physical body.

“I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold” with the eyes I have in my body, before the worms eat them.

After the above verses are read, then we cannot leave out when Job saw God or, most likely, the glory of God (a theophany), with His eyes in his body before it was eaten by worms…
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

Christ’s appearance to the disciples in the flesh was to prevent them from having a lingering doubt or, “Thomas” event. I believe, so skepticism would not be raised in debate between them. I may be wrong on the reason but, I know my Savior could have appeared however He desired. Christ chose a form they could see, hear, and touch (all their senses) to remove all doubt.

It is settled for me. I have no problem with having a spirit body or whatever it is like as long as I can sit (however a spirit sits) at the Saviors feet, and in my right mind.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

No harm - no foul...right?

[Jerry]

Actually, Job 19:26 says AFTER worms destroy his body he will see God with his eyes.

Job 19:26-27 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Also, after his reins - his insides - are consumed within him.

Based on the book of Hebrews and Revelation 5, I think it is fair to say Jesus will be the same in Heaven as He was after His resurrection - a spirit does not have wounds in their hands and side, yet in Revelation 5, the Lamb is identified by His wounds.

Just to clarify, if you are still willing to talk about it (even if you don't want to debate), are you saying you believe when you die you will have a spirit body (which is correct) or in eternity, on the new Heaven and new earth? That would not line up with the Word of God.

This is posted for anyone else reading this thread - even if you are not interested in more on this subject, as others may be wondering what else the Bible says on this topic.

The Bible teaches our spirits are united with our bodies at the rapture - therefore no believer, not even Jesus, will have a "spirit" body in eternity (though, of course, it will be spiritual in some sense, due to its nature - ie. not just physical or not just the same as His physical body that He had before He arose from the dead). At the resurrection of the just, all believers who have died throughout history are resurrected - that is referring to their new bodies, as their spirits are already dwelling in Heaven (this mortal will have put on immortality - a body without sin that can never die again). And at the resurrection of the unjust, the wicked are are reunited with their bodies before they are judged at the Great White Throne Judgement, then they are cast body and soul into Hell (lake of fire) - though there are obviously some changes to their physical body because it will never be consumed in the flames or by the worms that are eating them.

[1Timothy115]

9 hours ago, Jerry said:

Actually, Job 19:26 says AFTER worms destroy his body he will see God with his eyes.

Job 19:26-27 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Also, after his reins - his insides - are consumed within him.

Based on the book of Hebrews and Revelation 5, I think it is fair to say Jesus will be the same in Heaven as He was after His resurrection - a spirit does not have wounds in their hands and side, yet in Revelation 5, the Lamb is identified by His wounds.

Just to clarify, if you are still willing to talk about it (even if you don't want to debate), are you saying you believe when you die you will have a spirit body (which is correct) or in eternity, on the new Heaven and new earth? That would not line up with the Word of God.

This is posted for anyone else reading this thread - even if you are not interested in more on this subject, as others may be wondering what else the Bible says on this topic.  

The Bible teaches our spirits are united with our bodies at the rapture - therefore no believer, not even Jesus, will have a "spirit" body in eternity (though, of course, it will be spiritual in some sense, due to its nature - ie. not just physical or not just the same as His physical body that He had before He arose from the dead). At the resurrection of the just, all believers who have died throughout history are resurrected - that is referring to their new bodies, as their spirits are already dwelling in Heaven (this mortal will have put on immortality - a body without sin that can never die again). And at the resurrection of the unjust, the wicked are are reunited with their bodies before they are judged at the Great White Throne Judgement, then they are cast body and soul into Hell (lake of fire) - though there are obviously some changes to their physical body because it will never be consumed in the flames or by the worms that are eating them.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The scripture references I quoted are the Word of God without the need for exterior or added definition. I believe Jesus Christ is God and is my Savior. Jerry, if you have questions or doubts about it then, continue to read the verses of scripture in full context.

Edited March 21, 2022 by 1Timothy115
Additions.

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, 1Timothy115 said:

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The scripture references I quoted are the Word of God without the need for exterior or added definition. I believe Jesus Christ is God and is my Savior. Jerry, if you have questions or doubts about it then, continue to read the verses of scripture in full context.

After Christ was risen, he didn't refer to himself as "flesh and blood". He referred to himself as "flesh and bone". If, when we are arisen, we are to be like him, I would say that our bodies would be flesh and bone...no blood.