KJV 1 (The Rapture)

[BrotherTony]

17 minutes ago, Richg said:

Not true, I have quoted scripture numerous times on here & I have not attacked anybody, now if trying to share some Biblical truth offends then I'm sorry ! I will be happy to answer any questions you have, scripturally ! Here's an interesting thing I've noticed and is the main reason I started this pre trib conversation, almost every church that teaches a pre trib rapture also teaches that (Gen. Ch. 6) angels fell from Heaven and had sex with women & the Bible never says anything like that, as a matter of fact, in verses 1 thru 4 the words men, daughters and sons of God (saved men) & giants are mentioned but not one mention of a angel or fallen angel. Also most of them believe in the Gap theory, that somehow between Gen. 1-1 or 1-2 there is a gap in which millions of years can be added instead of just believing what the Bible says, that the world is a little over 6000 yrs old, that people can't place the timeline of the dinosaurs is what stumps them but its no problem, they were created when everything else was. 

I know of very few churches who teach the things you're saying are being taught....either in the IFB churches or the SBC churches I've attended. You've yet to give a breakdown/timeline for the things you say pertain to the rapture. Now you're introducing ideology on other things. Deflection isn't a good thing.                                                                                               

[Jerry]

On 3/3/2022 at 9:07 AM, Richg said:

but recently in the last 4 or 5 yrs have discovered some truths in scripture that disagree with the traditional teachings of Baptist preachers !

So, you admit that what you believe now you only recently came to believe - yet, you come in like a wrecking ball. Why not show some patience and grace if you truly think you are right and we are wrong - and give those here time to understand your position. Though most if not all the posters on these boards HAVE studied out the doctrine of the rapture and believe you are wrong.

Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Colossians 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

2 Corinthians 10:1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:

[Richg]

Sounds like you, not I have the anger problem, what you think I think, and what I think are two different things !!!

[Pastor Matt]

Who said anything about anger problems? Am I missing something here?

[Hugh_Flower]

Sir, he is gathering the tribe of Israel from the 4 corners of the earth.

4 hours ago, Richg said:

I'm going to leave it alone, maybe in the future you will come to the truth, if you can't read mark 13:24 thru 27 and see that this is the rapture then I cant help you, & if Mark 13 is the rapture so is Rev. ch. 6:12, they say the same thing about the stars falling & the moon turning to blood, it could not be clearer !

Rev 6:13 the next verse is again referencing the tribe. 

[Disciple.Luke]

On 3/4/2022 at 11:17 AM, Richg said:

My brother, that's your first mistake, never use man's book to interpret God's word , the Bible is self explanatory 95% of the time and when it's not, we're probably not meant to know that yet. I,m not saying extra knowledge is a bad thing except when it come to a man teaching another man his or her interpretation, I don't do interpretations, just what scripture says !

 

I typically don't respond to people on here who join just to argue or insult the Biblical knowledge of the forum members. There are moderaters and wiser brethren who take the lead in these cases, but for you I'm making an exception.

 

I didn't grow up in a religious family or attend seminary so I have spent the last twenty years testing specific doctrine and theology against the Bible itself. End Times Eschatology is probably my LEAST favorite topic to explore but I've educated myself on nonetheless.

 

So when I read your first few posts in here I couldn't help but to find the "proof texts" you used to validate your beliefs as curious. In twenty years I have NEVER seen anyone use the specific bible references you used to make an eschatological argument, so it struck me as odd that someone who has been a believer for 40 years (as you have described yourself) would come to interpret the those scriptures the way you are. 

 

Your specific wording and emphasis was suspicious to me. Along with that I noticed your confrontational support of Steven Anderson in another thread and decided to see if there was a connection. I visited the Faithword Baptist Church website, clicked on preaching section and looked for the lastest sermon dealing with the rapture or end times.

 

I clicked on the sermon dated 1/3/22 called Pre Trib Arguments Debunked. I was hoping there was a PDF form but there was none so I had sit for nearly an hour listening to this nonsense, but I'm glad I did.

 

You can imagine my amazement when I heard Pastor Anderson using the EXACT same verses to come to the EXACT same understanding of the rapture that supposedly took you "4 or 5 years" of studying to understand. 

 

The forum members can listen themselves and come to their own conclusions, but unless you ARE Steven Anderson yourself then you've lost all credibility in my mind. You came on here challenging the beliefs of the members whose beliefs and opinions I respect even if we don't always agree with one another and accused them of LISTENING to man's teachings instead of the Bible. Now it appears nearly every post you've made on here reflect the beliefs preached from the pulpit of Faithful Word Baptist Church.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQkTwpE6mNw

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Disciple.Luke

[Jim_Alaska]

And then there was silence.

[BrotherTony]

13 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

And then there was silence.

Don't you just love hit and run posters? 

[Iconoclast]

On 3/3/2022 at 1:01 PM, BrotherTony said:

I don't believe you're properly interpreting that verse. That is talking about the very end....not the rapture. This is one reason I had started a thread a while back about pastors and laypeople mixing the two events up and misinterpreting scriptures concerning each event.

 

Why do you think it is speaking of the very end?

[Iconoclast]

On 5/12/2022 at 11:54 PM, Iconoclast said:

Why do you think it is speaking of the very end?

Jesus said He will raise them up on the last day.

[BrotherTony]

10 minutes ago, Iconoclast said:

Jesus said He will raise them up on the last day.

This is speaking of the Tribulation saints...not those saved in the "church age."  Most here don't hold to your reformed theology, Iconoclast.

[Iconoclast]

2 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

This is speaking of the Tribulation saints...not those saved in the "church age."  Most here don't hold to your reformed theology, Iconoclast.

I care about what Jesus taught.

³⁹ And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

⁴⁰ And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

⁴⁴ No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:

and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus identified the time they will be raised up...at the last day.

He said it 3 times

[Jerry]

The last day is also used in this verse:

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The last day is a period of time that includes the rapture, the tribulation period, the judgement seat of Christ, the Millenium - this period is also referred to as the Day of the Lord and the Day of Christ (though the term "the day of Christ" is used specifically in reference to things involving the church, and the day of the Lord is used as a general term to cover the period of all the end times events).

[Jerry]

I don't remember what thread we were discussing this in, but this is worth noting.

Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Same symbolism. The seven spirits in chapter four represent the Holy Spirit. In chapter five, it is mentioned that the Spirit of God is sent forth into all the earth - representing His omnipresence. The seven eyes represent perfect/complete knowledge (omniscience), the seven horns represent perfect/complete strength (omnipotence), and the seven Spirit represent His perfect/complete presence in all the earth.

This last fact is interesting in light of the fact that many believe the Holy Spirit will not be here (ie. be removed) during the Tribulation period. Revelation 5:6 states He is sent forth into all the earth DURING this time period. His ministries will no doubt be different (in comparison to how He worked during the church age), but He will definitely be here doing His work of conviction, enlightenment, regeneration.