God preserving his word

[Bouncing Bill]

There are words in every language that cannot be translated into English using an equivalent word. One English word will not cover the meaning.

I just ran across one such word, Teranga. Teranga is a Senagal Wolof word. Teranga includes the values of hospitality,
courtesy, politeness, and gratitude all wrapped up in one word.  

Mandarin Chinese has the word guanxi. This word is impossible to translate in one English word.  Guanxi takes in the concept of having personal trust within a strong relationship with another person. It can involve obligations and giving favors. 

I am not even a novice in Hebrew or Greek. But I often what words in those languages are in the original Bible texts and how much was lost in the translations. 

 

[Hugh_Flower]

Well it’s simple. None 

[SureWord]

There comes a point that you just have to have faith God preserved his words for us the way he wanted them especially since we don't even have the originals.

[Bouncing Bill]

6 hours ago, Hugh_Flower said:

Well it’s simple. None 

Well, I know enough about language to know that is not true. For instance Greek has four words that must be translated as 'love.' English has only one word, 'love.' But each Greed word has a different meaning. So, I know that meaning is lost. 

When Jesus ask Peter if he (Peter) loved him Peter replied, but did not use the same Greek word. That difference in meaning is lost in English.

Just now, SureWord said:

There comes a point that you just have to have faith God preserved his words for us the way he wanted them especially since we don't even have the originals.

But I do not have to believe that a particular person's interpretation of that word, where meaning is lost, is accurate. 

[Bouncing Bill]

Jesus asks Peter if he loves him. John 21:15-17.

15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Now I will add the Greek words that Jesus and Peter used which have to be translated as 'love' in English.

¹⁵ So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest [agape] thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love [philo] thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

¹⁶ He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest [agape] thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love [philo] thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

¹⁷ He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest [philo] thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love [philo]thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Note that the third time Jesus asks Peter if he loves him that Jesus drops from the highest form of love, agape to the lower form of love, philo.

This difference is lost in the translation to English.

[Bouncing Bill]

I have been following the "Was the king James Bible itself inspired", finding it interesting. It has raised a question in my mind. 

Language, any language, including English is always changing. Words be come extinct, no long used. New words come into the language. The meaning of words change. Geoffrey Chaucer's Cantebury Tales is exceedingly difficult to read in the original Middle English. 

A short example from Chaucer's Middle English from his Canterbury Tales:

Me thynketh it acordaunt to resoun
To telle yow al the condicioun
Of ech of hem, so as it semed me,
And whiche they weren, and of what degree,
And eek in what array that they were inne (Book I, ll. 37–41)

Thus, the question is, how does God preserve his word as a language, in the case English, changes/

[Hugh_Flower]

Worlds lose their origins pretty quickly.  I still dial a phone number, yet I’m no longer rotating a dial on a phone. Yet the meaning still retains. I think if we nit pick to much we are becoming foolish in our own wisdom.

[Hugh_Flower]

How does God grant miracles, hmm indeed it is a question. 

[BrotherTony]

9 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Well, I know enough about language to know that is not true. For instance Greek has four words that must be translated as 'love.' English has only one word, 'love.' But each Greed word has a different meaning. So, I know that meaning is lost. 

When Jesus ask Peter if he (Peter) loved him Peter replied, but did not use the same Greek word. That difference in meaning is lost in English.

But I do not have to believe that a particular person's interpretation of that word, where meaning is lost, is accurate. 

So, is it YOUR belief that Jesus Christ or the HOLY SPIRIT lied when these words were written in the Bible? If a jot or a tittle is that important, I don't believe a difference in the word is going to change God's ability to preserve His Word or to keep his promises to do so. 

Matthew 5:18

“For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, Bouncing Bill said:

I have been following the "Was the king James Bible itself inspired", finding it interesting. It has raised a question in my mind. 

Language, any language, including English is always changing. Words be come extinct, no long used. New words come into the language. The meaning of words change. Geoffrey Chaucer's Cantebury Tales is exceedingly difficult to read in the original Middle English. 

A short example from Chaucer's Middle English from his Canterbury Tales:

Me thynketh it acordaunt to resoun
To telle yow al the condicioun
Of ech of hem, so as it semed me,
And whiche they weren, and of what degree,
And eek in what array that they were inne (Book I, ll. 37–41)

Thus, the question is, how does God preserve his word as a language, in the case English, changes/

BB, are you implying that God cannot preserve his Word even as the language/words change? 

[Bouncing Bill]

3 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

BB, are you implying that God cannot preserve his Word even as the language/words change? 

Nat at all BT. But how does God preserve his word when language changes? 

[Bouncing Bill]

8 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

So, is it YOUR belief that Jesus Christ or the HOLY SPIRIT lied when these words were written in the Bible? If a jot or a tittle is that important, I don't believe a difference in the word is going to change God's ability to preserve His Word or to keep his promises to do so. 

Matthew 5:18

“For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”

Nope, not at all. And your reply does not address the subject. 

[BrotherTony]

11 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Nat at all BT. But how does God preserve his word when language changes? 

There are usually equivalent that come along to replace the word that don't change the meaning. You're the one who taught/worked in a seminary or Bible college...right? You should be aware of this if you were involved in any way in this kind of ministry. 

[BrotherTony]

13 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Nope, not at all. And your reply does not address the subject. 

In a round about way, yes, it DOES address "the subject." It also puts YOU on the offensive....Your answer, "Nope, not at all," is an evasion of the question. I'll be a little more specific so that maybe even you can understand. Though there are indeed 3 different words for love in this passage you posted, anyone worth their salt would be able to find the differences by actually "studying" (2 Tim 2:15...Study to show thyself approved unto God...") by using a Bible dictionary, a commentary and a good concordance. It's not that complicated, BB...and after some of your comments in other threads "I dont NEED Scripture," it puts me into questioning your motive for asking the questions you've asked in the two threads concerning this issue.

[Pastor Matt]

Just to clarify here Bill. When I say I love you and tell my wife I love her. It most definitely is not the same love. I want to clarify that right away.   

Let's not make it awkward lol