Which hymns do you believe contain bad theology

[SureWord]

10 hours ago, Musician4God1611 said:

I still don't get where you are coming from. If the Bible says that God is love, then isn't emptying himself of all but love still remaining God since God is love. It is in essence saying emptied himself of all but God. You can't arbitrarily pronounce something to be a heresy without establishing the premises whereby you came to such a conclusion. I can promise you that Charles Wesley did not negate the deity of Christ.

No, the "emptying" was that Jesus removed all his divinity but love. The word was altered to support the doctrine of kenosis to satisfy to liberal translators who rejected the deity of Christ. Even the term sounds ridiculous. What does it even mean? Sounds like some Hindu nonsense of obtaining nirvana. Christ humbled himself not emptied himself. We are to be like him in humility not "emptility".

So, I'll stick with the KJV.

Charles got this one wrong just like he got eternal security wrong. He's still one of the greatest hymn writers, though IMO, and I still love this hymn.

[Musician4God1611]

13 hours ago, SureWord said:

No, the "emptying" was that Jesus removed all his divinity but love. The word was altered to support the doctrine of kenosis to satisfy to liberal translators who rejected the deity of Christ. Even the term sounds ridiculous. What does it even mean? Sounds like some Hindu nonsense of obtaining nirvana. Christ humbled himself not emptied himself. We are to be like him in humility not "emptility".

So, I'll stick with the KJV.

Charles got this one wrong just like he got eternal security wrong. He's still one of the greatest hymn writers, though IMO, and I still love this hymn.

The “doctrine” of kenosis was said to be first taught by Gottfried Thomasius, who was born in 1804. Charles Wesley died in 1788. I’m pretty sure that isn’t what he was perpetuating.

Additionally, just because you think a term sounds ridiculous, doesn’t nullify it.

On top of that, I repeat that it doesn’t merely say that Christ emptied himself, but rather that he emptied himself of all but love. If God is love, then he couldn’t possibly empty himself of his deity and retain pure love.

This is not even mentioning the implication that those who disagree with you about this don’t stick with the KJV, which is an ungrounded basis.

 I believe at this point it would be safe to assume we won’t be reaching an agreement on this so we’d best just agree to disagree and go on.

[Pastor Matt]

So what other hymns do you folks believe have bad theology and why?

[SureWord]

13 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

So what other hymns do you folks believe have bad theology and why?

Why does this post make me laugh?

[SureWord]

"The Church's One Foundation" by Samuel J. Stone 

I've always found something sketchy about this hymn. Very papist sounding.

1) "Her charter of salvation, One Lord, one faith, one birth".

Paul said, "one Lord, one faith, one baptism" Eph. 4:5 

This always made me think the verse was being tweaked to teach baptismal regeneration.

2) "Partakes one holy food".

Is this referring to the Eucharist?

3) "And mystic sweet communion With those whose rest is won."

Prayers to the Saints?

Sure enough, Samuel J. Stone was a CoE priest and he based the hymn on The Apostles Creed. He wrote 12 hymns based on the 12 Articles of the Apostles Creed this one being based on the 9th Article:

"The holy Catholic Church; the Communion of Saints".

Now, the hymn can be viewed differently by the singer for example:

"partake one holy food"

could be thought of as "Jesus, the bread of heaven" but understand the author's original intent.

 

 

[1Timothy115]

Just A Little Talk With Jesus

"(When you) feel a little prayer wheel turning
(And you) will know a little fire is burnin'
(You will) find a little talk with Jesus makes it right."

[Disciple.Luke]

I always get lost in  theological thought when I hear Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus. Not because I believe it contains bad doctrine, but because I feel like it could give the impression to a non believer that Jesus shed blood is the single focal point for salvation.  

While Jesus blood was precious and necessary to the plan of redemption the shed blood was only a part of the overall atonement for our sins. I have always understood that when Jesus blood is mentioned in the bible in a redeeming manner it is pointing ultimately to the death of Jesus physical body. 

When I hear "Nothing But the blood" my mind goes to Old Testament sacrifices where the animals cause of death was blood loss. When Jesus paid the final sacrifice his blood was shed but his death wasn't from bleeding out since Jesus apparently voluntary ended his life by commiting his Spirit to the Father. It is also my understanding that the cause of death from crucifixion was a result of asphyxiation not bleeding to death.

But like I said...I don't believe the hymn contains false doctrine because it's true the blood of Jesus saved us. In the same way when someone says we are saved by "the cross". That is also true that the crucified Lord is our savior, but we arent saved by the actual wood beams that formed the cross which held the Godman. The cross was only an instrument used to try to make his death come at the hands of  Pharisees, Sadducees, and Rome but they failed and  voluntarily gave up his physical life to atone for the sin of Adam. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Disciple.Luke

[Musician4God1611]

15 hours ago, SureWord said:

"The Church's One Foundation" by Samuel J. Stone 

I've always found something sketchy about this hymn. Very papist sounding.

1) "Her charter of salvation, One Lord, one faith, one birth".

Paul said, "one Lord, one faith, one baptism" Eph. 4:5 

This always made me think the verse was being tweaked to teach baptismal regeneration.

2) "Partakes one holy food".

Is this referring to the Eucharist?

3) "And mystic sweet communion With those whose rest is won."

Prayers to the Saints?

Sure enough, Samuel J. Stone was a CoE priest and he based the hymn on The Apostles Creed. He wrote 12 hymns based on the 12 Articles of the Apostles Creed this one being based on the 9th Article:

"The holy Catholic Church; the Communion of Saints".

Now, the hymn can be viewed differently by the singer for example:

"partake one holy food"

could be thought of as "Jesus, the bread of heaven" but understand the author's original intent.

 

 

Yes, this song has always bothered me. I haven't been in a lot of churches where they sing it, but when it is sung I always think, "Really? Are you guys paying attention to what you're singing."