Was Simon the Sorcerer saved?

[Pastor Scott Markle]

18 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

The Greek word used for "perish" in Acts 8:20 is translated as "damnable" and "destruction" in 2 Peter 2:1.  It is translated "pernicious ways"; "of perdition" and "waste" in other verses.

I don't see the word being attributed to the saved of God.

1 Timothy 6:9-10 -- "But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition [Greek noun - "apoleia"].  For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

So then, the warning of 1 Timothy 6:9-10 must not be applicable unto genuine believers, since the result is not possible for believers???????

2 Peter 3:16 -- "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction [Greek noun - "apoleia"]."

So then, the warning of 2 Peter 3:16 must not be applicable unto genuine believers, since the result is not possible for believers???????

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I have to do with what the text of Acts 8:20 says.  Simon was heading toward destruction.  If he did not repent,, he certainly would find it.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

The Greek verb "apollumi" is the Greek verb form in unity with the Greek noun "apoleia."

Roman 14:15 -- "But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably.  Destroy [present, active, imperative of the Greek verb "apollumi"] not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died."

This certainly appears to apply unto genuine believers.

1 Corinthians 8:11 -- "And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish [future, middle, indicative of the Greek verb "apollumi"], for whom Christ died?"

This certainly appears to apply unto genuine believers.  (By the way, this also indicates that the English word "perish" is indeed used "in a post-resurrection verse" for genuine believers)

4 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

I have to do with what the text of Acts 8:20 says.  Simon was heading toward destruction.  If he did not repent,, he certainly would find it.

Indeed.  If he did not repent, he certainly would end in some form of destruction, but not necessarily in hell's destruction.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I disagree. 

the Greek used in Acts 8:20 is only used in conjunction with the destruction of the lost.

Romans 14:16 uses an entirely different Greek word for "Destroy" and does not mean the same as in Acts 8:20.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

12 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

I disagree. 

the Greek used in Acts 8:20 is only used in conjunction with the destruction of the lost.

44 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

1 Timothy 6:9-10 -- "But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition [Greek noun - "apoleia"].  For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

So then, the warning of 1 Timothy 6:9-10 must not be applicable unto genuine believers, since the result is not possible for believers???????

2 Peter 3:16 -- "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction [Greek noun - "apoleia"]."

So then, the warning of 2 Peter 3:16 must not be applicable unto genuine believers, since the result is not possible for believers???????

 

12 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

Romans 14:16 uses an entirely different Greek word for "Destroy" and does not mean the same as in Acts 8:20.

29 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

The Greek verb "apollumi" is the Greek verb form in unity with the Greek noun "apoleia." (emphasis added by Pastor Scott Markle)

Roman 14:15 -- "But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably.  Destroy [present, active, imperative of the Greek verb "apollumi"] not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died."

This certainly appears to apply unto genuine believers.

1 Corinthians 8:11 -- "And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish [future, middle, indicative of the Greek verb "apollumi"], for whom Christ died?"

This certainly appears to apply unto genuine believers.  (By the way, this also indicates that the English word "perish" is indeed used "in a post-resurrection verse" for genuine believers)

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by Pastor Scott Markle

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I  believe that, had Simon been saved, he would not have asked Peter to pray for God to forgive him.  He would instead have heeded Peter's instruction and prayed himself.

Surely, the Spirit would have convicted him to pray.  But instead, when told to pray that God forgive him, he tells Peter to pray instead.

[Bob from England]

Further to the comments above I link to an article that looks at this in a fair, and balanced way, before coming to the conclusion that Simon was saved, but in need of repentance:  (I don't necessarily, endorse everything on the web site)

http://www.gracelife.org/resources/gracenotes/?id=70

[heartstrings]

On 8/18/2017 at 7:27 PM, Standing Firm In Christ said:

I  believe that, had Simon been saved, he would not have asked Peter to pray for God to forgive him.  He would instead have heeded Peter's instruction and prayed himself.

Surely, the Spirit would have convicted him to pray.  But instead, when told to pray that God forgive him, he tells Peter to pray instead.

You never ask anyone to pray for you? I do. Sometimes, when I feel pretty low, and don't feel like I could get a prayer through, I think (thought bubble)......"maybe my brother here is closer to God than I am, and can get a prayer through for me" sort of like this......

.....Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Philippians 2:3

and so........

13Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

The brother was of a humble spirit, and instead of getting all haughty and prideful about it, he showed the fear of God (The beginning of wisdom the Book says) and he simply asked them to pray. So I still believe I'll meet old Brother Simon up there. :)

 

[John Young]

I had a good time preaching this a few weeks ago. The text says he is a believer but that he desired a power that did not belong to him and was becoming bitter. Its similar to a lot of Christians who want to serve God in certain ways or in a certain office but are not qualified to serve in that way. We get our term Simony (the buying of church offices) because of Simon. 

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by John Young

[Alan]

John,

Thank you for uploading this message on Simon the Sorcerer,  Acts 8:9-25

I especially appreciate the quotation of Proverbs 27:2 and incorporating it into your message. "Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips." Proverbs 27:2 And, later on your comments on 1Corinthians 12:7-12 and Isaiah 55:1 in relation to Simon and his thoughts that Peter perceived.

As you mentioned, the spirit of Simon, and his sorcery is much in evident in the Christian world today; especially in the Charismatic realm. As Simon deceived others through the desire of promoting himself, trickery and deception, the shysters in our age are all around us in the religious movements in the various denominations.

Alan