Inerrancy of Scripture - Bible believer or bible agnostic?

[Guest Guest]

Instead you submit the Bible to your own interpretation' date=' which is expressly forbidden in scripture. Well at least in the KJB.[/quote']


Hi KJB. :smile Well, I blame this all on our IFB churches in the USA that are submitting themselves to "easy believism." These pastors are going to be held accoutable for this one day before a "Righteous God." This is the "foremost" reason why my in-laws left the Brethren Church. Gradually, MV's were coming in there. They were in the RCC, then, the Brethren church, until God directed them to the "real" truth---the IFB church. Fortunetly, at this time---all of our IFB churches in Ohio are KJBO. I just pray that the devil doesn't do a "sneak attack"---you know? Satan is "baffling, cunning, and powerful." The Brethren church up here is using "whatever Bible floots your boat." And, the MV's are in there like the plague. :thumbdown Completely---and utterally ridiculous and confusing. :puzzled:

[Annie]

"2 Peter 1:16-21 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables' date=' when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. [u'] We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Scripture declares that it is a "more sure word of prophecy" than a voice directly from heaven. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. The Bible, all of it, is the word of God.

I agree completely with these verses, and embrace them wholeheartedly! My question for you is this: how do you make the leap from "all scripture" to "the KJV," or from "a more sure word of prophecy" to "only one book in which all of God's inspired words, and no more than God's inspired words, are found?" There is no basis for such a leap. Such a leap is adding words/meaning that just aren't in this passage at all.

When you say, "The Bible, all of it, is the word of God," you really mean, "Only the KJV (or TR), all of it, is the word of God." Upon what scriptural basis can you make this claim?

"John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God."

"Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

By claiming the Holy scriptures contain errors you "speak not according to this word". Scripture gives its verdict.

I have never claimed that the holy scriptures have errors; I have claimed that there is no scriptural reason to believe that all of the "holy scriptures" (as in all of God's inspired words) are found in one and only one place.

Here is your line of (human) reasoning:
1. The Holy Scriptures contain no errors.
2. The KJV (or TR, or a certain translation) EQUALS nothing more or less than the Holy Scriptures.
3. The KJV has no errors.

What I am wondering is how in the world you get from number 1 to number 2. It's just not in the Scripture--any Scripture! There is a leap in logic here. Leaps in logic don't concern me a bit if the reason for the leap is that a person is accepting something by biblical faith in God's promises. But there are no promises from God upon which to base the faith that the all of His inspired words MUST be preserved in one and only one volume. He never says that "the Holy Scripture" equals "one and only one infallible volume."

[Guest Guest]

God hides spiritual truth from the wise and prudent' date=' and reveals it unto babes. He takes the wise in their own craftiness.[/quote']


Bro. Will. I pray that many of US stay "babes" for a long time. LOL. Spiritual growth as you know, never ends until we take that last breath on earth. It is always the extremely intelligent who have a HUGE problem with the KJBO, IMO. The devil is VERY crafty, indeed. He loves to toy with the human mind, daily. Jesus kept it so simple---if ONLY people would keep humble. I am glad I am not that smart! :lol II Timothy 2:15...Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. KJV 1611 AV.

[kevinmiller]

There is a difference between pride and intelligence. Intelligence can cause pride but you can also be extremely intelligent and completely humble. God gave us the ability to study and reason and understand and I think we can and should apply that to the Bible version debate and not trust something that is human-produced(a translation) to mere faith.

[Guest Guest]

Annie, the scriptures have no errors.

The KJB has no errors. Period.

God promised to preserve His word to all generations, so it's available somewhere.

God's word is perfect. The KJB is perfect, regardless of what you, Metzger, White, Westcott and Hort and the rest of that bunch say.

You don't believe that God's perfect word is available without deciding for yourself out of a pile of moth-eaten manuscripts and humanistic philosophy.

I believe that God preserved His perfect word in the King James Bible.

So we have your side, that believes that "somewhere" out there, in who knows how many different languages, differing texts and thousands of different manuscripts, that God's word can be found by picking and choosing what you deem to be right, based on your own human reasoning and "wisdom."

On my side, God did the work in preserving His word through the ages in a line of faithful manuscripts, and (depending on the individual's exact belief) either led the translators or directly inspired them to translate that preserved, perfect word into English, the result being the King James Bible.

Your position makes logical sense. My position makes Biblical sense.

[kevinmiller]

You're gonna have to do better than calling people "humanistic" and "Alexandrian cults" to convince them.
A position must make both logical and Biblical sense to be accepted. God gave us the ability to discern what is right and what is wrong, what makes sense and what doesn't. He expects us to use our common sense in Biblical interpretation. If we don't, we end up with so many of the cults and wacky doctrines that we have today.

[Annie]

Your position makes logical sense. My position makes Biblical sense.

How does your position make biblical sense? In order for something to make biblical sense, it has to be based on something that God has actually said in the Bible. Anything not based on something that God has said does not make "biblical sense." In reality, my position makes more "biblical sense" than yours, because it is based solely on the promises that God has actually given in the scripture to preserve His words. It is not based on human additions to God's promises that insist that God has to have preserved all of His words in one place, and only in that place. That concept is found nowhere in any Bible. So, how does your position make "biblical sense," since it is not based on anything in the Bible?

[Guest Guest]

There is a difference between pride and intelligence. Intelligence can cause pride but you can also be extremely intelligent and completely humble.

I do correct myself here, Kevin. That was a poor choice of words on my part. Sometimes, though---extremely intelligent people have trouble getting "common sense."

not trust something that is human-produced(a translation) to mere faith.

As far as you know, yet. There is plenty of "proof" out there. Hearts just need to be open to it, is all.


There are many Bible scholars out there in the world, Kevin. Just search it out yourself. Research, research, and more research. Let the Holy Spirit be your guide. :smile

[Guest Guest]

If we don't' date=' we end up with so many of the cults and wacky doctrines that we have today.[/quote']


Kevin, haven't you ever thought that maybe the modern versions is the "primary" reason why there are so many "cults and wacky" doctrines? :Bible:

[kevinmiller]

Well, the thing is, many of those cults and doctrines came about before other versions were available and many came from people using a verse out of the KJV as their basis.

[kevinmiller]

I do correct myself here, Kevin. That was a poor choice of words on my part. Sometimes, though---extremely intelligent people have trouble getting "common sense."


As far as you know, yet. There is plenty of "proof" out there. Hearts just need to be open to it, is all.


There are many Bible scholars out there in the world, Kevin. Just search it out yourself. Research, research, and more research. Let the Holy Spirit be your guide. :smile

Yes, some people are so intelligent that they lack common sense. I believe in a good balance of both. It's good to be well-read and well-studied and to use your common sense in applying that knowledge. I try to be open to learning as much as I can about Biblical truth so you can be assured that my studies will always be ongoing, I just can't guarantee how much time I'll be able to dedicate to any specific subject. :frog

[Guest Guest]

Annie, the scriptures have no errors.

The KJB has no errors. Period.

God promised to preserve His word to all generations, so it's available somewhere.

God's word is perfect. The KJB is perfect, regardless of what you, Metzger, White, Westcott and Hort and the rest of that bunch say.

You don't believe that God's perfect word is available without deciding for yourself out of a pile of moth-eaten manuscripts and humanistic philosophy.

I believe that God preserved His perfect word in the King James Bible.

So we have your side, that believes that "somewhere" out there, in who knows how many different languages, differing texts and thousands of different manuscripts, that God's word can be found by picking and choosing what you deem to be right, based on your own human reasoning and "wisdom."

On my side, God did the work in preserving His word through the ages in a line of faithful manuscripts, and (depending on the individual's exact belief) either led the translators or directly inspired them to translate that preserved, perfect word into English, the result being the King James Bible.

Your position makes logical sense. My position makes Biblical sense.

This is excellent, KJB. WOW!

[Guest Guest]

Yes' date=' some people are so intelligent that they lack common sense. I believe in a good balance of both. It's good to be well-read and well-studied and to use your common sense in applying that knowledge. I try to be open to learning as much as I can about Biblical truth so you can be assured that my studies will always be ongoing, I just can't guarantee how much time I'll be able to dedicate to any specific subject. [/quote']


Kevin---any doubts that I have had about you being "very strong" in the Lord have been prayed out very carefully by me---the Holy Spirit convinced me about that. :thumb I know you are very balanced in your beliefs. Honestly, I wish that I had half of the intelligence about the Bible that some people have on here---when you get older the scriptures don't come that easily. LOL. I have to practice daily in the word of God. I really do. Remember, we come from two different worlds? I went from a total lie to the truth. BOOM!!! I humbly say that I grow in "leaps and bounds"---I mean, I have to do a lot of "catching up." hehe. Why do you think I am on OB? I want to grow in the Lord. I love to learn and grow and can say that when I have a burden for my OB brothers and sisters in Christ---I take it straight to Jesus. He will ALWAYS be my guide---He not only saved my earthly life but my eternal one as well.

[Guest Guest]

Well' date=' the thing is, many of those cults and doctrines came about before other versions were available and many came from people using a verse out of the KJV as their basis.[/quote']


Kevin---God's Holy word was already pre-ordained before the beginning of time---the KJVO. I know you don't have the time to research, so I will "try" to get ahold of as much info as I possibly can to "hopefully" prove it to you. It is going to take me much time, though. There is mounds of "proof" out there. It is a HUGE research project for me. :thumb

[Guest Guest]

Not to discourage you, candlelight, but I'm afraid that of all the members here, Kevin is one the least likely to change his position. Probably the least likely after Jerry. :smile