Civil War or War between States - please advise.

[...]

I have many ancestors who fought in the war, and they all fought for the Union (the North).  We even have my Great Great Father's (on my mother's side) diary.  It was translated from the original German in which he wrote it, but it has been in one huge, almost unreadable block of text.  I have just begun the process of breaking it up into comprehensible parts and have plans to publish it as a short book.  

If you're interested, here's the link to a PDF of the English text that is still far from being ready for print, and, of course, a photo of ol' Great Great Grandaddy Adrian Schweizer.

2 hours ago, The real Bob Hutton said:

When I was a young boy I saw a film "The red badge of courage"...

You've just inspired me to re-watch Andersonville.  I'm watching it now.

[weary warrior]

7 minutes ago, Brother Stafford said:

I have many ancestors who fought in the war, and they all fought for the Union (the North).  We even have my Great Great Father's (on my mother's side) diary.  It was translated from the original German in which he wrote it, but it has been in one huge, almost unreadable block of text.  I have just begun the process of breaking it up into comprehensible parts and have plans to publish it as a short book.  

If you're interested, here's the link to a PDF of the English text that is still far from being ready for print, and, of course, a photo of ol' Great Great Grandaddy Adrian Schweizer.

You've just inspired me to re-watch Andersonville.  I'm watching it now.

The Red Badge of Courage, in my humble opinion, can only truly be savored and appreciated if read in the original book by Stephen Crane.

BTW, Brother Stafford. In regards to your avatar, from one bearded man to another, well done, Sir! Well done! :)

[...]

9 minutes ago, weary warrior said:

BTW, Brother Stafford. In regards to your avatar, from one bearded man to another, well done, Sir! Well done! :)

LOL!  Thank you, brother; that gave me a chuckle. :)

[Bob from England]

39 minutes ago, weary warrior said:

As a proud Southerner of many generations, I have studied the "War of Northern Agression" (see what I did there?) to a degree not many have bothered, and I'm certainly not offended by how it is called, but to this day I refuse to sing the Battle Hymn of the Republic.

True story - in 2000, a bunch of us left Tennessee and Texas together to meet in Sydney for the summer olympics for 2 weeks of outreach. We passed out over 1,000,000 tracts in over 400 languages. The local Baptist church there hosted us one Sunday, and it happened to be on the weekend of the 4th of July. I suppose they were trying to be good hosts, for they truely were wonderful people, because one of the hymns they chose was The Battle Hymn of the Republic. As we stood there, I couldn't help it, I had turn and look behind me, and there were 7 or 8 pews full of unreconstructed southerners just standing there quietly while surrounded by a large church full of Aussies blithly singing a Northern fight song for us at the top of their lungs. 

No one was offended, there was no trouble, and we appreciated the thought and innocence in which it took place. But we still would not sing it.

You made mention of "unreconstructed Southerners".  Was that a reference to the reconstruction that took place just after the conflict ended?

What exactly was that about? My old Pastor was a civil war historian, and he stated to me once that reconstruction caused more bitterness to Southerners than the war itself, is that true? 

(This is very interesting, and shows that even 150 years after the war ended it still has the capacity to evoke deep discussion, I may have started something here!)

Edited February 27, 2017 by The real Bob Hutton
that should be than in line 4.

[1Timothy115]

I enjoy the conversation so ask away. I may have some questions about England's period pre-1611 in the future that you may help answer.

I've lived in Virginia, South Carolina, Florida, stayed in Louisiana (weeks at a time), Texas, Rhode Island, and Ohio. I've never heard or witnessed any problems calling it by either. I will say that I've heard some Northerners called "Yankees" prefixed with expletives sometimes in jest and other times expressing sarcasm and dislike. I've never taken offense and just walked on by when I heard the remarks. I proudly sing The Battle Hymn of The Republic, which I have heard sung by choirs and congregations in Virginia (Ol' Virginny).

[weary warrior]

That is exactly what it refers to. When one actually studies it out, the war truely was over State's rights vs central federal control. Slavery was simply used as the flashpoint. An honest farmer in Wisconsin would not fight and die over a political position as academic as state vs federal rights. So they used slavery to frame it as a moral crusade, and hundreds of thousands died.

The south actually had a legal, constitutional right to secede, (I've studied it out) and create their own government. Most figure it would probably have ultimately failed and returned to the Union peacefully over time, but it was right and legal to try. So they considered that Washington invaded an autonomous, independant country (Northern Agression) and took it by force.

1. The Emancipation Proclimation only freed slaves in the Confederation, where the Union had no court, but did not free the slaves still legally held in the Union States. (An interesting study in itself).

2. Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus

3. At the end of the war, Federal troops were stationed in the south, and the South was under military occupation for years.

4. Northern Carpet Baggers were stealing farms from returning, impoverished soldiers, who had no weapons or rights to fight back. They were using the newly freed slaves as muscle for this. The southern farmers, who were unable to physically defend themselves and their farms without weapons, would wait until the group of freed slaves were approaching a farm to force them out, then burn a cross IN THEIR OWN YARD to scare off the uneducated and superstitious blacks. It morphed into something that is horrible and hateful today, but it started as simple, self defence. These things caused a terrible animosity between poor whites and poorer blacks in the south that had not existed before, the sad results of which are still with us today.

That is a small part of the legacy of reconstruction.

[DaveW]

1 hour ago, weary warrior said:

As a proud Southerner of many generations, I have studied the "War of Northern Agression" (see what I did there?) to a degree not many have bothered, and I'm certainly not offended by how it is called, but to this day I refuse to sing the Battle Hymn of the Republic.

True story - in 2000, a bunch of us left Tennessee and Texas together to meet in Sydney for the summer olympics for 2 weeks of outreach. We passed out over 1,000,000 tracts in over 400 languages. The local Baptist church there hosted us one Sunday, and it happened to be on the weekend of the 4th of July. I suppose they were trying to be good hosts, for they truely were wonderful people, because one of the hymns they chose was The Battle Hymn of the Republic. As we stood there, I couldn't help it, I had turn and look behind me, and there were 7 or 8 pews full of unreconstructed southerners just standing there quietly while surrounded by a large church full of Aussies blithly singing a Northern fight song for us at the top of their lungs. 

No one was offended, there was no trouble, and we appreciated the thought and innocence in which it took place. But we still would not sing it.

Two things:

Which church was it? Just interested.

and,

Over here it is not considered an "American Hymn" as such, so unless they made a point that it was for you, it was probably just co-incidence. We, and most over, would not even recognise july 4th in a service. Not really very impostant to Aussies.

 

Oh yeah, and one last thing - Aussie rhyming slang for "American" is "Septic".

There is no offense meant by it, bit it comes from septic tank rhymin with Yank, which to an Aussie is an American, Southern or Northern. 

We call you all yanks without thinking about the wholenorth-south thing.

So, if you get called a Yank or a septic, it is not a deliberate slight, but a statement of ignorance.

Unless you make a big thing out of, whence many Aussies will do it more, just to stir you up.

Aussie nature is that way........

[...]

10 minutes ago, DaveW said:

Oh yeah, and one last thing - Aussie rhyming slang for "American" is "Septic".

There is no offense meant by it, bit it comes from septic tank rhymin with Yank, which to an Aussie is an American, Southern or Northern. 

We call you all yanks without thinking about the wholenorth-south thing.

So, if you get called a Yank or a septic, it is not a deliberate slight, but a statement of ignorance.

Unless you make a big thing out of, whence many Aussies will do it more, just to stir you up.

Aussie nature is that way........

I don't take offense when being called a Yank or a Yankee, but I do believe I would take offense at being called a "septic."  I would not appreciate being equated with a holding tank for human feces, even if it was meant in good fun.  Just because tank happens to rhyme with yank, doesn't provide carte blanche to come up with and perpetuate a disgusting nickname.  That's like making "s**t" a nickname for people from Britain because, "Hey, Brit rhymes with s**t.  What a fun nickname.  No offense though.  American nature is just that way."

[DaveW]

2 hours ago, Brother Stafford said:

I don't take offense when being called a Yank or a Yankee, but I do believe I would take offense at being called a "septic."  I would not appreciate being equated with a holding tank for human feces, even if it was meant in good fun.  Just because tank happens to rhyme with yank, doesn't provide carte blanche to come up with and perpetuate a disgusting nickname.  That's like making "(deleted)" a nickname for people from Britain because, "Hey, Brit rhymes with (deleted).  What a fun nickname.  No offense though.  American nature is just that way."

Whilst I understand what you are saying, there is a difference: septic tank is not foul language.

Secondly, if you came to Australia and reacted that way, the kind of person who would use that term will stir you ceaselessly over it. That is EXACTLY the reaction they want, and you would never be given rest The whole time you were there.

I will also say (and probable should have before) that most IB will not be that disrespectful, but if you react that way to an unsaved Aussie using it, you can forget ever having an opportunity to witness to him.

Edited February 28, 2017 by DaveW

[fastjav390]

I always get a kick when I hear a limey refer to a Southerner as a Yank.

[wretched]

australian, british, north, south.....who cares as long as our names are written in Heaven.

[weary warrior]

6 minutes ago, wretched said:

australian, british, north, south.....who cares as long as our names are written in Heaven.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Those who don't care about other's culture and history are not going to reach them, only offend them.

I care.

[wretched]

1 minute ago, weary warrior said:

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Those who don't care about other's culture and history are not going to reach them, only offend them.

I care.

Who cares is the question again friend? There will be none of this nonsense in Eternity.

[DaveW]

Anyway WW - which church in Sydney was it? If you don't mind me asking?

[weary warrior]

25 minutes ago, DaveW said:

Anyway WW - which church in Sydney was it? If you don't mind me asking?

I don't mind at all. Sorry, I think I answered above, but neglected to quote your original question. My apologies. I don't remember the name, but I think it was Faith Baptist. It was a very straight, concervative IB. I remember the pastor had an Italian-sounding name, he was a very good man. Sorry. I'm terrible with names, and it's been close to 17 years.