The Widow's Mites

[Standing Firm In Christ]

13 minutes ago, Alan said:

SFIC,

Obviously she was in 'want' or in poverty, that is not the question nor the attitude of her heart. The word 'want' has many meanings, and you neglected to give all of them. You only gave the meaning that you wanted to give and neglected to give, or even say, that there could be another meaning.

May I quote a meaning of the word 'want' from the 1848 Webster's Dictionary? "WANT" 6. to wish for; to desire." the heart motive of this widow was a desire to give to the Lord. she was not even concerned what the Pharisees taught or thought of her actions.

The widow 'wanted' to give her all to the temple. Again, may I quote the Lord Jesus. The Lord Jesus  very clearly said, "... Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living." Mark 12:43 and 44

The widow was a poor widow, she wanted to give to the Lord, to the Temple, to the work of God, out of a heart of love and devotion. Your interpretation is not correct and a perversion of the words of the Lord Jesus. The widow gave joyously and lovingly. Her rewards in heaven are great.

 

You interpret the word "want" from a secular dictionary.

 

I look to the Greek for the interpretation.  The Greek for want carried far less definitions than the secular.

 

Had Jesus meant, "desire" or "wish for," the Greek would have been "aiteo".  He instead used "hysteresis," which speaks of poverty, not desire.

[Alan]

I have already said that the word want is meaning poverty; I also said that the other meaning is to desire.

And, even though if you want to only force that one meaning the words of the Lord Jesus is very clear. The poor widow was not robbed in any sense of the word and you are trying to twist the very words of the Lord Jesus to prove a saint is being robbed when they tithe.

22 minutes ago, Alan said:

Again, may I quote the Lord Jesus. The Lord Jesus  very clearly said, "... Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living." Mark 12:43 and 44

The widow was a poor widow, she wanted to give to the Lord, to the Temple, to the work of God, out of a heart of love and devotion. Your interpretation is not correct and a perversion of the words of the Lord Jesus. The widow gave joyously and lovingly. Her rewards in heaven are great.

Are we to take the words of SFIC above the very words of the Lord Jesus?

[Invicta]

51 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

You quoted Alan, did you mean Alan's interpretation is forced?

Did I?  Sorry no I was referring to you.  I don;t know how that happened.  Sorry to Alan as well.

[Ronda]

The very words of Jesus also stated in Mark 12:40 " 40 Which devour widows' houses ...." I see the words tying into the next sentences as well... so "Standing Firm" has brought out those words of Jesus also... in context of the verses together. So no, I am not taking mankinds words above the Lord Jesus... I am fully taking ALL that Jesus has to say about it, not just limited to verse 43 and 44.

 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Ronda
added "44"

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Coverdale, (1535) Bishop's, (1568) & Geneva (1587) all say "out of her poverty".  I have no reason to doubt that "out of her want" in the King James means "out of her poverty."

Edited November 19, 2015 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Alan]

The Lord Jesus, in Mark 12:38-40, is talking about the hearts motives of the relgious leaders of His age.

The Lord Jesus, in Mark 12:43 and 44 is talking about the heart motive of the poor widow and her reason for giving.

On ‎2015‎年‎10‎月‎17‎日‎ ‎下午‎, robmac68 said:

Seriously??  If such were the case as you pointed out, we would not need the comparison that the "rich cast in much."  Many that were rich does not specify they were all lawmakers and scribes.  Rich were casting in a lot from their abundance but she cast in more.  If Jesus was pointing out they were robbing this poor widow, He would have just pointed out she gave all she had, now she has nothing.  He then goes on to point out she gave more than "all" that gave.  This was everyone giving, not just scribes and lawmakers.  He is pointing out her 100% and "all they" gave less than 100%.  This was not needed to be done if just pointing out that the scribes and lawmakers were thieves. 

And personally I don't see a widow being robbed.  Malachi 3:10&11 applies to her so she is being taken care of. 

robma68 is correct.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The Lord saying she gave all her living nowhere denotes a desire to give.  You are reading into the text what isn't there.

 

 

[Ronda]

Alan, I do not want to argue and cause strife... I really don't.  But I have to tell you that I see a reason for Jesus talking about the heart motives of the religious leaders JUST PRIOR to talking about the widow and her mites. Specifically he mentioned widows in verse 40 and I do not think it coincidental that a widow is to whom he is showing the example of in verses 42-44.  I can see we differ in thought on that.  I see the tie-in, you don't think it's relevant to what Jesus was saying in the next verses... so I will just agree to disagree with you (hopefully without hard feelings). I had to defend this point because you stated I was taking the word of fellow-mankind above the Lord Jesus and I wanted to explain to you why that's not the case.  Jesus' words do mean more to me than any mere human...   

6 minutes ago, Alan said:

The Lord Jesus, in Mark 12:38-40, is talking about the hearts motives of the relgious leaders of His age.

The Lord Jesus, in Mark 12:43 and 44 is talking about the heart motive of the poor widow and her reason for giving.

 

[LindaR]

Let's quote the account of the Widow's Mite from Luke's gospel:

Luke 20:46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;
Luke 20:47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.

Luke 21:1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
Luke 21:2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
Luke 21:3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
Luke 21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury (husteresis) hath cast in all the living that she had.

The word "penury" in verse 4 of Chapter 21 is the same Greek word as the word "want" in Mark 12:44--husteresis

Strong's Greek Dictionary

5304. υστερησις husteresis

Search for G5304 in KJVSL

υστερησις husteresis hoos-ter'-ay-sis

a falling short, i.e. (specially), penury:—want.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary [K-Z]

penury

PEN'URY, n. L. penuria, from Gr. needy.

Want of property; indigence; extreme poverty.

All innocent they were exposed to hardship and penury.

******************************************

The word "want" (husteresis) is also found in Philippians 4:11:
Philippians 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want (husteresis): for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
Therefore, the word "want" in Mark 12:44 does not mean "desire"....nor is there any indication in the text that the widow had a desire to give.

BTW, the poor widow was not "tithing"....she was giving.  The Biblical tithe was never money.

Edited November 19, 2015 by LindaR

[Alan]

20 minutes ago, Alan said:

The Lord Jesus, in Mark 12:38-40, is talking about the hearts motives of the relgious leaders of His age.

The Lord Jesus, in Mark 12:43 and 44 is talking about the heart motive of the poor widow and her reason for giving.

Does not a person from the heart have a desire to give?

"Keep thy heart with all dilgence; for out of it are the issues of life." Proverbs 4;23

Did not the Lord Jesus judge the religious leaders in Mark 12:38-40 according to the desire of their hearts?

And, did not the Lord Jesus commend the widow in Mark 12:43 and 44 according to the desire of her heart?

Does not God, as the Lord Jesus, look upon the desires of the heart and makes a judgment? "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as a man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7

The Lord Jesus saw the desires of the heart of the poor, desitute, and poverty stricken widow and told us, and the whole world, she gave out of a heart of love.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Alan
spelling

[Standing Firm In Christ]

13 minutes ago, Alan said:

Does not a person from the heart have a desire to give?

"Keep thy heart with all dilgence; for out of it are the issues of life." Proverbs 4;23

Did not the Lord Jesus judge the religious leaders in Mark 12:38-40 according to the disire of their heart?

And, did not the Lord Jesus commend the widow in Mark 12:43 and 44 according to the disre of her heart?

Does not God, as the Lord Jesus, look upon the desires of the heart and makes a judgment? "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as a man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7

The Lord Jesus saw the desires of the heart of the poor, desitute, and poverty stricken widow and told us, and the whole world, she gave out of a heart of love.

Alan, you are reading desire into the text.  Nowhere in the text is there any indication whatsoever that the widow had a desire to give.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Alan]

5 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

Alan, you are reading desire into the trxt.  Nowhere in the text is there any indication whatsoever that the widow had a desire to give.

Did not you read Proverbs 4:23 and 1 Samuel 16:7? The Lord Jesus looked at the desires, at the motive, at the heart of this destitute widow and saw that she gave out of a heart of love.

For you, or anybody else, to say that she was 'robbed' and gave through the intimidation of the lost religious leaders is not correct.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Alan
spellling

[Standing Firm In Christ]

God does see our desires.  However, he sees forced giving as well.  He even sees people who are manipulated into giving out of fear and guilt.

[Alan]

3 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

God does see our desires.  However, he sees forced giving as well.  He even sees people who are manipulated into giving out of fear and guilt.

You are correct. God does see our desires. God, the Lord Jesus, saw the desires of the widow and saw a heart of sacrificial giving. Nowhere in the passage of scripture concerning the widow, Mark 12:43 and 44, does the Lord Jesus say, or even allude too, that the widow was forced, or manipulated, into giving by fear and guilt. The interpretation that the widow gave out of fear or guilt is your own private interpretation; it is not the words of the Lord Jesus. According to the very words of the Lord Jesus, she gave sacrificially because she wanted too.

And, that is the same motive that a lot of other saints give their tithes and offerings, and lives. No fear, no guilt, and no intimidation from preachers.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

There is no indication in the text that the widow had a desire to give.  Nor do Jesus' words infer what you claim.

 

no fear, guilt or intimidation from preachers?  You are incorrect.  Preachers use Malachi 3 every Sunday to guilt and manipulate congregant's giving.  Every time they use Malachi 3 to prove people should tithe to the church, they do so in error.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Standing Firm In Christ