The Widow's Mites

[Pastor Scott Markle]

6 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

God did put it for us to see.

1.Leviticus 27:30-34 states that the tithe command was given to the children of Israel.

2.  Psalms 147:19-20 states that the commands given to Israel were given to no other nation.

Hence, people living outside of Israel were not commanded to tithe by God.

Brother Robey,

I do NOT intend to engage in a full discussion concerning the matter of the tithe within this thread (since this thread is NOT about tithing, but IS about the widow's giving of her mites).  However, I do wish with this posting to express my recognition of at least two valid points that you bring into the discussion on tithing (in order that you may recognize that I am not committed to the "tithing precept" for New Testament believers, as you might believe).

1.  I fully recognize that there is NOT a single command in the New Testament for New Testament believers to give a tithe of anything.
2.  I fully recognize that there is NOT a single example in the New Testament of a New Testament believer giving a tithe of anything.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2015 at 9:27 PM, Standing Firm In Christ said:

Even the Greek word for 'threw in' in The Mark 12 text and the Greek for 'cast' the Luke 21 text, "ballo", carries with it the picture of a violent or intense action.  It is as if the woman is thinking, "They don't care that this is all that I have to live on," then violently throwing the money into the receptacle,... "Ballo" seems to give more credence to the thought that the woman was being forced to give her money to the thieves.

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2015 at 10:37 PM, Standing Firm In Christ said:

Prior to an hour ago, I had not looked into the meaning of "threw in".  So, yes, after looking into the meaning, I do believe she threw the money in because of compulsion,... Compulsion which she resented.

"ballo" indicates a violent action.  Why would she violently throw the money in, if not due to being forced to give? 

At the present it appears that the discussion of this thread is "winding down," and that is quite acceptable with me.  However, earlier in the thread I did make a commitment to deliver a presentation concerning the Greek verb "ballo."  Therefore, I do not wish to fail in that commitment.  If the following posting re-heats that engagement, well then shame on me.

Concerning the Greek verb “ballo.”

The Greek verb “ballo” does not inherently, necessarily, or automatically require the idea of violence or aggravation in action.  The basic meaning of the verb “ballo” is that of a casting motion with the arm.  Certainly, this meaning can include a very forceful, or even violent motion.  Yet this meaning also includes that of a dropping action, or even simply that of a setting action.  

The Greek verb “ballo” is used 125 times in the Greek New Testament (if my count is correct).  Let us then consider some examples of usage from the Greek New Testament to determine if this Greek verb inherently, necessarily, and automatically indicates a more violent and/or aggravated manner of action.

Certainly, the New Testament DOES include occasion where the verb indicates more violent action.  Such may be observed in those passages wherein the verb is used concerning those who are cast into hell or the lake of fire. (See Revelation 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15; etc.)  Such may also be observed in those passages wherein the verb is used concerning those who are cast into some form of prison. (See Acts 16:23, 24, 37; ect.)

Yet in Matthew 4:18 the Greek verb is translated with the English verb “casting,” as follows – “And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.”  Although in this context the verb would indicate a more forceful action, certainly it does not indicate violence in action.

In Matthew 9:17 the Greek verb is translated twice with the English verb “put,” as follows – “Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.”  Certainly, herein the verb would not indicate violence in action.

In Matthew 25:27 the Greek verb is translated with the English verb “put,” as follows – “Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.”  Certainly, herein the verb would not indicate violence in action.

In Matthew 26:12 the Greek verb is translated with the English verb “poured,” as follows – “For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.”  Certainly, herein the verb would not indicate violence in action.

In Mark 4:26 the Greek verb is translated with the English verb “cast,” as follows – “And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground.”  Certainly, herein the verb would not indicate violence in action.

In Mark 7:30 the Greek verb is translated with the English verb “laid,” as follows – “And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.”  Certainly, herein the verb would not indicate violence in action.

In Mark 7:33 the Greek verb is translated with the English verb “put,” as follows – “And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue.”  Certainly, herein the verb would not indicate violence in action.

In Luke 13:19 the Greek verb is translated with the English verb “cast,” as follows – “It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.”  Certainly, herein the verb would not indicate violence in action.

In Luke 16:20 the Greek verb is translated with the English verb “laid,” as follows – “And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores.”  Certainly, herein the verb would not indicate violence in action.

In John 5:7 the Greek verb is translated with the English verb “put,” as follows – “The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.”  Certainly, herein the verb would not indicate violence in action.

In John 13:5 the Greek verb is translated with the English verb “poureth,” as follows – “After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.”  Certainly, herein the verb would not indicate violence in action.

In Revelation 4:10 the Greek verb is translated with the English verb “cast,” as follows – “The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying . . .”  Certainly, herein the verb would not indicate violence in action.

Now, with some historical research we understand that the temple “treasury” contained 13 offering receptacles, and that each receptacle was shaped like an old-style trumpet, with a narrow mouth and a broad base.  Even so, it was not possible for an individual simply to set his or her offering into the offering receptacle.  Indeed, “casting in” was precisely the motion that was required.  Yet this would not automatically indicate that the “casting in” was some form of violent or aggravated action.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Comparing a person lying down with another throwing money?  Seriously?

the text in Mark says she threw in the mites.  Throw is far from lay.  LoL

 

 

[Pastor Scott Markle]

10 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

Comparing a person lying down with another throwing money?  Seriously?

the text in Mark says she threw in the mites.  Throw is far from lay.  Lol

The point was that these passages all employ the SAME GREEK VERB, and thereby indicate that this Greek verb does NOT INHERENTLY mean "violent action."

[HappyChristian]

I think this topic has been thoroughly discussed. Thanks to all for their input.