Atheists and delusion

[Potatochip]

Never said Noble Catholic.  Said unable Catholic more or less.  More or less due too works Salvation.  That can get you into big trouble too. I can do all things thru Christ who strengthens me.  If you don't have salvation.  Your living by your own merit pretending God is looking down on you saying what a great fellow. Thats your imagination  your living by the law and trying to avoid the cracks in the sidewalk.   So my example was to say the Catholic knows the difference.  Just an example.  Dosen't mean he can do it without salvation.  Then there is the guy that compares humans to animals.  Atheist.  Who thinks that were like cattle or sheep nothing but an evolved animal.  Where does he derive all the laws and ordinances, crime and punishment that have come about.  Well great philosophers and evolution of course.  Nevermind every government on earth has the same basic laws more or less.  Thats a baffler.  For a lot of people.  God tells you why.  That was the Roman government.  It's in the Bible.  Same today.  More or less.  Completely baffled.  You kill in China you go to jail.  You steal in France or Russia you go to jail.  God also sometimes lets people have the government they want so much.  Israel you want a KING?  Ok we know what God did in the Bible you can have one.  

Atheist can't explain why all the governments have the same basic rules.  They don't know.  They digress.   You want a muslim govt hey thats just my guess.  Just don't go around shooting and killing your citizens or stealing.  Its a time of grace.  

Atheists have nothing virtually to prod their conscience.  Which is more in line with psychopathic thinking.  They dismiss their own conscience in many cases.  Therefore.  (I have done this) you can tell atheist they are killing babies in the 9th month of pregnancy right in the womb.  Doesn't bother them.  Thats psychotic in my opinion   

If they do have a sense of right and wrong.  That comes from the law God has given to all humans on earth.  It's not human invention the law.  Thats doesn't even make sense to say that it is which makes things even more baffling.  Because they are using the right and wrong the Bible has spelled out.  So they are living out rules put down by God yet there is no God in their opinion. So leave me alone I would guess they think and let me sin.  I don't chase atheists down the street lol.  It's just to confusing to deal with them.  I can give them the Gospel or reason with them out of the Bible.  I'm going no further than that.  Alimantado if you have a heart for these people no one better than someone like you to deal with it.  Go for it I encourage it.  I'll pray for it if you want.  

Edited June 22, 2015 by Potatochip

[Potatochip]

Even most Christians I know will respond with a fairly basic 'God says so' when asked about where morality comes from and more specifically why some things are right and some things are wrong.  Amen lol.  Because God says so way more than good enough for me.  Doesn't mean I can get it done.  I struggle with things like anyone else.  A Pa  will tell his kid something and he just doesn't get it sometimes.  Stare at you with a sweet look saying sure Pa.  lol.  I get it.  Even when he dosen't.  God is so kind and patient.  I think the Bible says that.    

Edited June 22, 2015 by Potatochip

[Alimantado]

I can't really follow most of this, I'm afraid, Potatochip. Are you saying I'm living by the law? Are you saying I'm Muslim?? And all this stuff about Atheists can't explain this and can't explain that--so what? Who's saying that they could and what does that have to do with anything I said in response to you? And your example of the catholic recognising he's sinning while the atheist doesn't: yes, I acknowledged that's what you were saying and in my response I explained why I didn't agree with the point. I said that Romans 2:14-15 tells us that an atheist has a conscience and can be convicted by it, and I pointed out examples of atheists I knew who demonstrably had morals.

[Potatochip]

I'm sorry you can follow.  If an atheist denies he has a conscience.  If he denies there is no right or wrong.  That would be the reasoning to let him do what he wants.  The only deterrent is crime and punishment.  Difference with the Catholic?  There is no God that will apprehend him.  

Edited June 22, 2015 by Potatochip

[Alimantado]

If an atheist denies he has a conscience then he still has one.

And as for atheists denying there's right or wrong, I've never met an atheist in the flesh who thinks this, and I've met hundreds, so that makes me wonder how much of this is just speculation and conjecture, unless the atheists where you live are very different to where I live. So yeah, if an atheist denies there is right and wrong then they might go on to reason they can do what they want, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be able to ignore their conscience.

The difference with the catholic is that there is no god that will apprehend him? Not sure what that means.

[John81]

The historicity of the resurrection convinced me of the truth of the Gospel. But it took another year or two for me to respond to the call. If you want to, you can even look back over this forum and read it happening in 'real time'! I don't see what my testimony has to do with the above, though.

That's similar to how Lee Strobel came to Christ. In doing research to disprove Christ, he discovered the reality of Christ and was saved. Some atheists and others have come to Christ through his book on the matter: "The Case For Christ".

[Potatochip]

Yep some of my friends carry that one around among others.  Thats pretty amazing Alimatado.  Congradulations.  I actually read about that theory on a Christian website.  That lack of absolutes could be a kind of psychopathy. Another words someone could form their own right and wrong. Completely disregarding any moral thought.     Maybe I didn't explain it right.  But to me at the moment I read it,  it seemed to make sense.  I actually had the same thought you did after reading it Romans 2:14-15.   That very verse went through my mind and I decided not to say anything to anyone about it.  Until now.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Potatochip

[Alimantado]

 I actually read about that theory on a Christian website.  That lack of absolutes could be a kind of psychopathy. Another words someone could form their own right and wrong. Completely disregarding any moral thought.     Maybe I didn't explain it right.  But to me at the moment I read it,  it seemed to make sense.  I actually had the same thought you did after reading it Romans 2:14-15.   That very verse went through my mind and I decided not to say anything to anyone about it.  Until now.

Fair enough, Potatochip. I guess I don't see the value in such theoreticals and extrapolations. Is it your conclusion, then, that the average atheist is a rabid psycopath and that folk need to beware before knocking on one's door or inviting one into church? If so then, like I said earlier (and John seems to be saying), your conclusion just doesn't seem to map onto reality, at least where I live, since atheists appear to be about the same morality-wise as the average so called Christian.

In fact, I reckon the difference between your average atheist and your average 'nominal Christian' (or whatever you want to call them) is almost nothing, and whether they identify as atheist or Christian is probably just the result of cultural norms. In more 'religious' areas (including UK 100 years ago), folk will go to church--or not even go to church--and vaguely believe in a 'higher power' and identify as Christian because that's the done thing. In a secular area, the same kind of people will just identify as atheist. In both cases, these people will not spend more than about 5 minutes a year thinking or caring about where they've come from or their eternal destiny and their heart will be focused on social status, family, possessions, real estate, career, business, qualifications, sports team or other domestic stuff. And in both cases they'll have a moral code that's broadly equivalent to what their culture says is right and wrong, and they'll neither know nor care what the basis is for their moral code. Those are the kind of people that are around me.

 

 

 

[Potatochip]

I was kind of thinking about Stalin and Pol Pot maybe Mao and a few others too. A lot of the leaders in countries where they reject Christianity and embrace and mandate atheism seem to have more than their fair share of psycho killers. Life is animal life is cheap.    That was I guess at the top of my mind.  In one country I know of I won't mention it turned communist overnight.  I know a guy whose uncles preached the Gospel in that subject country.  Both of them they refused to recant when arrested and the soldiers blew their brains out.  I dunno.  Your right though probably even in the muslim countries a whole lot of people just go along with it.  Taking care of their families.  

Edited June 23, 2015 by Potatochip

[Invicta]

Stalin was actually a Jesuit.  But a professional atheist.

[Saintnow]

The historicity of the resurrection convinced me of the truth of the Gospel. But it took another year or two for me to respond to the call. If you want to, you can even look back over this forum and read it happening in 'real time'! I don't see what my testimony has to do with the above, though.

I thought I answered this...I enjoy witnessing to atheists and trying to get the light of the gospel to shine through their darkened minds.  I like hearing any salvation testimony, and I like hearing the specifics of what made an atheist change their mind to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.   The historicity of the resurrection is a wonderful answer, and many people have repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ after doing an objective investigation seeking to disprove the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ.

One atheist I know of, a third or fourth generation female atheist whose father taught atheism as a credit course in college, got saved after hearing the gospel to be saved from Hell and fearing atheism could be wrong and she could be leading her daughter into Hell with it.  I'd like to hear of atheists becoming Christians after investigating Creation science and I assume there are some but I have not heard of or from them yet.  I can debate with atheists in the arena of physics and science, but it seems ineffective since the heart of the matter is pride....it's a spiritual issue, not an intellectual issue.  The reality of the resurrection of Jesus Christ directly challenges our pride...being true, His resurrection proves He is worthy of worship and praise and to be obeyed and followed no matter what the cost.  If Christ is not risen from the dead, we are of all men most miserable.  He is the hope of the world, there is no other hope and I'm glad you have realized this.

[Old-Pilgrim]

Delusion:   an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.   A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.   

I will pick out to site the topic:  Atheists and delusion.  The phrase in the definition sited above.  "A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary"

Superior evidence need I say more.  Israel all of the geographic data in the Bible.  The existence of all the peoples listed in the Bible.  The archaeological evidence for all the cities listed in the Bible.  The diaspora,  The holocaust.  Invention of the atom bomb near the same time. Nuclear proliferation a reality now  The return of Israel and the focus of what we see in the news day in and day out.  No ones really citing South America in the news.  The area of trouble is usually in one area the Middle east.  Now I would say normally so what?  However its been that way for thousands of years.  

Conspiracy theorists tend to be delusional.  Lets look at it again ---- A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary

One example might be 9/11 was a false flag operation.   Despite the fact that virtually no other government on the planet has accused the United States of a false flag operation.  Some people carry on with that kind of thinking.

Sin is delusion:   Psychiatry is the worlds way of dealing with the results of sin.  After all God gives us the power of a sound mind.   For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind

Another words the mystery of iniquity, sin.  Will take you places that aren't in touch with reality.  The deeper in you get into sin.  The more irrational the mind gets.  God even tells Israel that they will go insane - madness, blindness.  If they forsake Him and don't follow what he told them to do.  

So the Atheist.  Their underlying thoughts more than likely are delusional.  When exposed.  You will find that everything that is going on in regards to religion today.  Yes I did say religion and the history of.  Is to them one big conspiracy perpetrated by man in many of their minds, not all but many.   Their disconnect is the sin in their lives.  Delving and getting their answers from the delusion in their minds that is the result of the insanity,  sin produces.  I don't waste time arguing with Atheists or other unsaved people. Because if you use logic well all your going to get is irrational illogical answers that are derived from the result of sin.  That includes not believing in Jesus.  Which believe it or not is sin.  The Gospel saves.  That's what I utilize word for word.  Or try anyway.  

However I think that the Christian also needs to be careful not to get involved in sin.  It just might turn one's world upside down.      For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.  We shouldn't be all that startled at all that's going on in a fallen world.  How to avoid that in my opinion.  Is to stick with the Bible.  Not fad.  Not reaching outside of what we know is true (we are all diligently seeking God).   We need to avoid sin.  Sin which quite frankly is crazyland, darkness, has its own mystery.  The mystery of iniquity.  Which if your trying to solve anything which you feel is tangible by investigating the mystery of iniquity.  More than likely all your going to find is more craziness. 

 

Hi 'Potatochip' , >>>Delusion:   an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.   A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.  <<<

That is very worldly, so wrong and unfounded. 'what is generally accepted as reality' by most in the west is what is portrayed on TV and Media, most of which is owned by about five companies, not Government. If you are serious about what you are saying here I would recommend to you a documentary by Chris Pinto called Megiddo I: The March to Armageddon   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjsXBZtPxs4   The March to Armageddon, isn't a conspiracy theory, but it is a good historical look at Biblical prophecy. I believe It is on youtube by permission. Chris is a Christian and does a radio program and has done a few very good documentaries.

[Old-Pilgrim]

HD

[Old-Pilgrim]

This video deals with 'conspiracy theories' at about 1Hr 17min in & more so at 1Hr 32min in. awesome really, when you hear what mere politicians used to say on TV, and in documents, JFK had some interesting insights, a bit of a Hero if you ask me.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Old-Pilgrim

[Potatochip]

That is very worldly, so wrong and unfounded. 'what is generally accepted as reality' by most in the west is what is portrayed on TV and Media, most of which is owned by about five companies, not Government. If you are serious about what you are saying here I would recommend to you a documentary by Chris Pinto called

 

Hi Pilgrim.  Delusion is in the Bible of course.  Like I say if every country on earth pretty much does not accuse the USA of a false flag for 9/11 with all the trouble that caused.  That pretty much says it for me.  That's an example.  The news media are not legislators or investigators or government officials.  So say for instance the Holocaust.  I am going to take the word of all of Europe, England and the US governments that it happened.  They had the investigators.  They were there.  They held a really big trial.  Another example.  The USA is pretty open government.  So.

I have read some of Mr Pinto's work he is an acquaintance with a  friend of mine.  He did some work on Freemasonry.  I don't believe  in the Freemason conspiracy as far as government goes.  However he did point out a lot of the founding Fathers were Mason.  The interesting part to me was the fact that.  All religions were included in Masonry and written in the Constitution that way.  It occured on me that is more deist than anything.  It was pretty good.  I liked that film ok it had some good points to it.  i'm just not a conspiratorial minded person.  The mystery of iniquity, sin, principalities and powers that's another matter. I try not to get to fascinated with conspiracies.  Although interesting.  I lived through Y2k some people were bouncing off the walls with that one.  lol.  I said forget it man.  Ain't gonna happen.  You have to take some things with a grain of salt I guess.   Governments establish order in their nations.  It's what they do.  It must be a real headache establishing order full time.  Riots break out.  They have to establish order.  Its what they do.  What was meant by New World order I can only guess.  Did different people mean different things.  In addition.  I am not challenging anyone but I would like citations from sources where they got the information where these people said "New World Order"  Also what they meant in context.  The end could happen in any number of ways.  I don't know how it happens   I'm an evangelist not a prophet.  Frankly if someones trying to sell me a book.  Believe me those kind of books sell really, really well.  I don't buy it.  A free you tube I will watch I like free.  Heck maybe worldwide famine or disease or even a nuclear war ushers in the Anti-Christ.  How would I know.  No one knows the day or the hour.  

Edited June 24, 2015 by Potatochip