Atheists and delusion

[John81]

I know of some areas which have extended their "No Solicitors" ordinances to include those spreading their religion (which covers Christians, Mormons, JWs, etc.).

More and more fundamental Christianity is becoming viewed as hateful based upon it's "intolerance" of other religions, homosexuals, etc. The more laws passed, and even unlawful attempts to silence Christians by the governmental powers, along with the maligning of fundamental Christians throughout the media, the more people in general are coming to hold negative, even intolerant (!) views of fundamental Christians. This, of course, plays right into the hands of those working to confine us to the insides of our churches...for now...until the day comes they feel free to round us up in our churches and lock us away in the name of safety, security and peace.

Even on Fox News this past week I heard fundamentalist Christians lumped together with fundamentalist Muslims and white supremacy groups.

Yep, we are being set up for a knock down.

[Potatochip]

lol.  I just came back from handing out tracts and got told to leave state property.  They caught me coming around the corner on the sidewalk and told me again. (I guess that's state property too.)  There was a festival in the park.  Which is a state park.   Thats ok I got most of what I had to get done there anyway.  I didn't mind.  There are safety reasons for those laws.  I guess.  You don't want to disrupt government also.  Why you can't hand out tracts in a state park.  I don't know the reasons.  Just about any other place I go they don't bother me.  I could simply put away the tracts i guess and witness.  

 

I'll give you an example of just how much free speech we have. These folks preaching are a little arminian.  That doesn't bother me entirely.  Their young.  Kind of a dramatic statement below too.  

 

Street Preachers Clash With Authorities at Street Festival | Jesse Morrell Open-Air  

Edited June 20, 2015 by Potatochip

[Miss Daisy]

Praise God for men like him! The guy confronting him a committed Christian? Any true Christian would not object to the preaching of God's word! I'm glad that guy knows how to respond calmly. I also liked that someone else took over the preaching while the one was being asked to leave, he didn't interrupt the preaching! Hopefully, he's not associated with Westboro, because they are so vocal, people tend to automatically associate anyone preaching in public as associated to them. 

Do you know if he was able to continue? and not forced to leave? 

[Potatochip]

Of course he wasn't asked to leave.  The police were standing right there towards the end and weren't saying anything.  If your on a public sidewalk anywhere or public property.  No one can do anything.  It's free speech the only exception is near govt. officials in some cases.   For safety and continuation of gov't I would imagine.   There are a few place exceptions like govt.  property.  Same reasoning I would guess.  Jesse is a young guy as far as I know not affiliated with Westboro in any way.  Police can't do anything in the instances I mentioned.  Some of the govt. properties need permitting also I would imagine.  We are permitted for the local train station for instance.  The US has free speech.  It's in the constitution.  

Edited June 20, 2015 by Potatochip

[John81]

Denying free speech isn't a matter of safety, it's a matter of silencing people. Having and exercising free speech isn't a matter of disrupting the government either. Would the government shut down and chaos take hold if you were allowed to continue passing out tracts or stood on the edge of the sidewalk sharing the Gospel? No.

There are many things in the Constitution which have been illegally (unconstitutionally) ignored, regulated, restricted and legislated against. Aspects of the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 9th and 10th amendments (the Bill of Rights) have been illegally curtailed by the federal government. As have several others.

As the apostles Peter and John declared in Scripture, when men (government, religious leaders, others) declare obeying God is forbidden we are called to obey God rather than men. After being told they were not allowed to preach Christ, they preached Christ anyway in accord with the Great Commission. They, and others, were punished for doing so and they gladly accepted the punishment and then continued to preach Christ.

No human law is valid when it stands in direct opposition to a clear command of God.

[Potatochip]

I guess that's what a lot of my friends, fellow street evangelists say John 81.  I don't get upset there are really very few places I can't go and tract and have an outreach.  Like you can't go on private property like oh Wal-mart or Target without permission.  So I stay off this is a big town.  i have plenty of ground to cover. lol

[Saintnow]

This question comes up quite a lot on here, actually, and there are folk who maintain that because the President is a public servant and the public are 'king', verses about kings and authorities, including ones like Matt 22:21, don't apply to the US. I tend to think that although there are a plethora of mechanisms by which heads of states gain authority, they are still equivalent to kings. Otherwise the Bible would have to list every style of head of state throughout history in order to give the truth. I'm sure the Chinese don't liken their Chairman or General Secretary, or whatever the title now is, to a 'king' either.

I use the "king" argument sometimes in defending the King James Bible as the word of God.  It's obvious looking at history how God used King James to authorize the translation of His word for the English speaking world.  God's word is authorized by Himself, and all of the evil kings in the world are in power by God's permission.  Because of this fact, I avoid accusations against King James' moral character and simply say I think they are false accusations and unimportant even if they are true because God's word is authorize by God and speaks for Him in spite of the faults of mankind.

And yes, I agree, the US President is a king established by God, and his heart is in the hands of the Lord to be turned like a river whichever way God chooses.   God turned King James' heart to authorized the translation of His word into English....

 

off topic from the OP......but I'll try to get back to the OP by saying part of the atheistic delusion is believing God's word is invalid.

[Saintnow]

I think the grand delusion is for a person to believe that they have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell.  This is the delusion that Satan wants to keep people in until they are in Hell and no longer have any hope of being saved and can no longer be used by God as bad examples like Pharaoh was.   All of the governmental conspiracies of this world are distractions away from the gospel and the fact that most of the world is on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell.  UFO's, 9/11, Illuminati, Skull and Bones, Free Masonry, Atheism....all delusions and conspiracies designed as doctrines of demons to keep people away from the light of the gospel.   Christians get sidetracked too much on these things sometimes, forgetting to focus on the gospel while trying to prove the truth behind sideline conspiracies.  When the Anti-Christ rules the world, he will unite all of the conspiracies in some crude way....and a lot of people will lose their heads for believing the gospel.

[John81]

I think the grand delusion is for a person to believe that they have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell.  This is the delusion that Satan wants to keep people in until they are in Hell and no longer have any hope of being saved and can no longer be used by God as bad examples like Pharaoh was.   All of the governmental conspiracies of this world are distractions away from the gospel and the fact that most of the world is on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell.  UFO's, 9/11, Illuminati, Skull and Bones, Free Masonry, Atheism....all delusions and conspiracies designed as doctrines of demons to keep people away from the light of the gospel.   Christians get sidetracked too much on these things sometimes, forgetting to focus on the gospel while trying to prove the truth behind sideline conspiracies.  When the Anti-Christ rules the world, he will unite all of the conspiracies in some crude way....and a lot of people will lose their heads for believing the gospel.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

[Potatochip]

Another thing that makes an atheist delusional and potentially dangerous in some cases is something very, very serious.  A person having their own moral code. This is a serious very serious matter in my opinion.  I'm not trying to be insulting I don't insult people or try not to.   I maintain a certain amount of respect for everyone.  Though I am no respecter of persons.  

Having your own moral code or even worse not having a moral code.  Another words there is no right or wrong.  Many atheists believe the premise there is no right or wrong.  We are only animals just like the rest of the animals on the planet.  They have sex, kill when they do kill no one puts them in jail.  They kill for food.  Do what they want and atheist would call that evolution adding religion to the moral code.  Another words strip religion out along with that goes the 10 commandments I would assume.  Also the one that says thou shalt not kill also which is part of the bedrock of every court system on earth.  The Bible says that those commandments are foundational set in place for the entire earth and for all people whether they know them or not.  I could go into the thousands of reasons atheism attributes having laws like not stealing and killing.  Laws that make for court systems and governments.  That are very clearly laid out in the Bible as keeping order in society in a time of grace.  I won't write all of that down.  I won't even attempt to shore up an atheists conscience with the thoughts they should have as if they were a saved person.  It would take all day probably all week.  The natural mind does not understand the things of God.  I don't waste time or try not to. 

No moral code could mean you either have none or one or two things and anything goes.  That is very dangerous.  That could lead to psychopathic behavior. Sex fiend, rapist, murderer, thief, robber etc.  Another words they still have the law.  But have totally disregarded that in their conscience.  They have written it off. The excuse.  They believe that God doesn't exist.  We could point fingers all day long.  However lets say a Catholic priest who cited in the news.  Is a child molester.  He knows that is wrong.  His conscience possibly torturing him that it is wrong.  An atheist molester in this example might think anything goes.  Has no foundation other than he could get caught and go to prison.  The bedrock of his thinking says hey were all animals.  Animals have sex whenever they want. Whats wrong with that?  Even worse is the psychopathic killer.  That says hey animals kill all the time no one bothers them.  

See the only thing holding them in place is the law, government and punishment.  Where they think the law, government and punishment come from because its virtually the same all over the earth is beyond me.  I guess everyone had a big conference at one point in time.  Decided all of this and that's how it is today. So I assume they would think law, government and punishment derived from religion in some way.  All religion seems to suck that one up and use it to demonstrate how good their religion is and proof that God exists be it muslim, jehovah's witness etc.  The law, courts, crime and punishment.   Its proof God exists once again.  Delusional thoughts once again that somehow law, crime and punishment magically through evolution came about all over the earth.  I have never really heard them attempt that one as they have not figured that one out.  

So bottom line here is.  I would like to see interviews with possible incentives for people who have murdered on death row.  I believe what your going to find are people that have no belief in God.  No conscience. A denial of God.  Only psychopathic thoughts the unreformed, unrepentant have that could lead to more killing.  That's why they are locked up.

 

[John81]

Actually, from what I've read and studied some years ago, most murderers on death row have a belief in God, some even come from Christian backgrounds. In one of the prisons I shared the Gospel, over half the inmates called themselves Baptist as their religion. Most of the others had some form of Christian descriptive with only a tiny percentage of other and even fewer with none. This was a maximum security prison.

Whether one believes in God or not, even whether they believe the Christian God is the real God or they believe in some false god, doesn't prevent a person from committing murder or other sins and crimes.

David in the OT and Saul in the NT are examples of men who believed in God yet were guilty of murder. By the grace of God both men eventually repented and served God, but many others don't. Judas Iscariot seems to have believed in God yet he betrayed Jesus which led to the execution of Jesus.

Most murderers are simply sinners, they are not "extra evil". Most murders are not such as the sensationalized cases that make for popular books and movies. Most murders stem from other sins such as jealousy, greed, hateful anger, bitterness and such.

Virtually everyone has a moral code, whether stemming from their religious background, culture, society, family, friends, associates or their own sense of right and wrong. Those who claim to not believe in right or wrong, to not believe in moral codes, are soon proven wrong when you take their wallet and they say it's wrong for you to do so. Everyone believes in some form of right and wrong, but not everyone believes in the perfect standard of right and wrong as presented in Scripture.

[Potatochip]

Only psychopathic thoughts the unreformed, unrepentant have that could lead to more killing.

That would be after the fact.  The question would be before the crime was committed.  If done properly.  A lot of people lol even drug dealers will get you on your way with.  Yea I'm saved.  Some people like playing Christians to.  No you have to question with qualifying and non-qualifying questions.  Sort of a lie detector of questions and answers.  Death row could be tricky.  That's my opinion anyway.  I can tell you I don't always know.  lol. 

Going to jail or not in my opinion is no moral code.  It's just avoiding punishment.  Thats what laws are for,  for instance.  For lawbreakers and would be lawbreakers.  Atheists don't have any absolutes many of them and will tell you so.  Many things lead up to the larger crimes also.  That included covetousness especially.  Which an atheist might respond to covetousness hey what's that going to hurt?  Mention idolatry which some may write off as hey so what its not a big one.  Not Loving God with all your heart.  The law of course.  Could lead to all kinds of delusional doings and thinking.  We see that every day.  So things that lead up to damage against others are really critical.  Things that lead up to damage to ones self are really critical in my opinion.  Not honoring your Mother and Father is denial of authority and other things.  Adultery is inflicted in some cases and self-inflicted.  Taking Gods name in vain is participating with the dark side and blasphemy.  So the law is still in place for those that don't have Christ.  Can a saved person take it too far?  I believe so.

Atheist's have no moral absolutes in many, many cases just ask one.  No absolutes like the Ten commandments.  Means you have replaced them with something else.  More than likely something from below.  Abortion is legal thru all 9 months of pregnancy in the US. Atheist's think thats just swell.  Will defend abortion into the middle of the next century.  With the assumption there are no psychopathic killer "doctors".  That will get a degree just to kill.  It's all good to them with no thoughts otherwise.  That would be an example.  God lets.  However we know the difference and need to think and behave accordingly. 

Edited June 22, 2015 by Potatochip

[Alimantado]

No moral code could mean you either have none or one or two things and anything goes.  That is very dangerous.  That could lead to psychopathic behavior. Sex fiend, rapist, murderer, thief, robber etc.  Another words they still have the law.  But have totally disregarded that in their conscience.  They have written it off. The excuse.  They believe that God doesn't exist.  We could point fingers all day long.  However lets say a Catholic priest who cited in the news.  Is a child molester.  He knows that is wrong.  His conscience possibly torturing him that it is wrong.  An atheist molester in this example might think anything goes.  Has no foundation other than he could get caught and go to prison.  The bedrock of his thinking says hey were all animals.  Animals have sex whenever they want. Whats wrong with that? ... See the only thing holding them in place is the law, government and punishment.

Going to jail or not in my opinion is no moral code.  It's just avoiding punishment.  Thats what laws are for,  for instance.  For lawbreakers and would be lawbreakers.  Atheists don't have any absolutes many of them and will tell you so.  Many things lead up to the larger crimes also.  That included covetousness especially.  Which an atheist might respond to covetousness hey what's that going to hurt?  Mention idolatry which some may write off as hey so what its not a big one.  Not Loving God with all your heart. 

Most people are not deep thinkers and will not be able to 'ground' anything, not least their moral code. Even most Christians I know will respond with a fairly basic 'God says so' when asked about where morality comes from and more specifically why some things are right and some things are wrong.

But just because someone can't account for their moral code, it doesn't mean they don't have one, and therefore asking whether someone believes in 'moral absolutes' tells you almost nothing. You certainly can't go from someone not believing in moral absolutes to necessarily concluding that therefore they must think murder and rape are fun and would be raping and murdering away if it wasn't for the threat of arrest.

Almost all my family, friends and home and business acquantances are atheists, and I can vouch that they have many of the same scruples that Christians have: for example they think killing someone is wrong, they think stealing is wrong, that lying and swindling and cheating is wrong. Of course there are many other wicked things they think are fine. But why do they have any morals at all? Well they get taught right and wrong by their parents for one thing, and of course Romans 2:14-15 tells us that that even though people are depraved, yet they still have a God-given conscience.

One thing that's popped up in the wake of our recent atheist visitor, and which I've found surprising, has been the tendency to depict atheists as a class apart--leagues more depraved than normal sinners (whatever they are). Look at Potatochip, saying that atheists have no conscience whatsover for child molestation, whereas the noble Catholic does. And then Potatochip goes on to show us how atheism leads to sins like covetousness and idolatry, as if atheism alone produces them.

I take issue with this, not because I think atheists aren't idolators and covetors and sexual deviants, but because the apparently unique sinfulness of atheists that Potatochip and others are describing just doesn't map onto reality, at least not where I live, and I'll wager that atheists are commoner here (UK) than in most places in US.

Guess what, if you walk down the driveway of the average atheist's house where I live, they aren't going to leap naked from a garden shrub and try to rape you. Nor are they going to say they wish they could but are afraid of being arrested.

And guess what, in most societies--though perhaps not UK--the majority of people don't claim to be atheists, and yet the same nations, especially Western ones, are shot through with idolatry, covetousness, love of money, adultery, fornication and every kind of sin.

We don't need to carry out hatchet jobs on particular groups of sinners, since all are plenty sinful, and all are already condemned.

[Saintnow]

Most people are not deep thinkers and will not be able to 'ground' anything, not least their moral code. Even most Christians I know will respond with a fairly basic 'God says so' when asked about where morality comes from and more specifically why some things are right and some things are wrong.
But just because someone can't account for their moral code, it doesn't mean they don't have one, and therefore asking whether someone believes in 'moral absolutes' tells you almost nothing. You certainly can't go from someone not believing in moral absolutes to necessarily concluding that therefore they must think murder and rape are fun and would be raping and murdering away if it wasn't for the threat of arrest.

Almost all my family, friends and home and business acquantances are atheists, and I can vouch that they have many of the same scruples that Christians have: for example they think killing someone is wrong, they think stealing is wrong, that lying and swindling and cheating is wrong. Of course there are many other wicked things they think are fine. But why do they have any morals at all? Well they get taught right and wrong by their parents for one thing, and of course Romans 2:14-15 tells us that that even though people are depraved, yet they still have a God-given conscience.

One thing that's popped up in the wake of our recent atheist visitor, and which I've found surprising, has been the tendency to depict atheists as a class apart--leagues more depraved than normal sinners (whatever they are). Look at Potatochip, saying that atheists have no conscience whatsover for child molestation, whereas the noble Catholic does. And then Potatochip goes on to show us how atheism leads to sins like covetousness and idolatry, as if atheism alone produces them.

I take issue with this, not because I think atheists aren't idolators and covetors and sexual deviants, but because the apparently unique sinfulness of atheists that Potatochip and others are describing just doesn't map onto reality, at least not where I live, and I'll wager that atheists are commoner here (UK) than in most places in US.

Guess what, if you walk down the driveway of the average atheist's house where I live, they aren't going to leap naked from a garden shrub and try to rape you. Nor are they going to say they wish they could but are afraid of being arrested.

And guess what, in most societies--though perhaps not UK--the majority of people don't claim to be atheists, and yet the same nations, especially Western ones, are shot through with idolatry, covetousness, love of money, adultery, fornication and every kind of sin.

We don't need to carry out hatchet jobs on particular groups of sinners, since all are plenty sinful, and all are already condemned.

so what made you decide to stop being an atheist and believe the gospel and receive the Savior?

[Alimantado]

The historicity of the resurrection convinced me of the truth of the Gospel. But it took another year or two for me to respond to the call. If you want to, you can even look back over this forum and read it happening in 'real time'! I don't see what my testimony has to do with the above, though.