Comment On Current Debate

[Alimantado]

Person A: What?!!! How dare you!! You are accusing me and calling me names, which shouldn't be allowed, whereas when I say the same things about you I am stating the truth, which is ok. I am being led by the Holy Spirit and am right about what scripture says, whereas you are not and are wrong. Scripture tells us that those who are wrong are liars and dogs and publican heathens, although technically I'm not calling you those things since I am not using your name in the same sentence.

Person B: What?!!! How dare you!! You are accusing me and calling me names, which shouldn't be allowed, whereas when I say the same things about you I am stating the truth, which is ok. I am being led by the Holy Spirit and am right about what scripture says, whereas you are not and are wrong. Scripture tells us that those who are wrong are liars and dogs and publican heathens, although technically I'm not calling you those things since I am not using your name in the same sentence.

Person A: What?!!! How dare you!! You are accusing me and calling me names, which shouldn't be allowed, whereas when I say the same things about you I am stating the truth, which is ok. I am being led by the Holy Spirit and am right about what scripture says, whereas you are not and are wrong. Scripture tells us that those who are wrong are liars and dogs and publican heathens, although technically I'm not calling you those things since I am not using your name in the same sentence.

Person B: What?!!! How dare you!! You are accusing me and calling me names, which shouldn't be allowed, whereas when I say the same things about you I am stating the truth, which is ok. I am being led by the Holy Spirit and am right about what scripture says, whereas you are not and are wrong. Scripture tells us that those who are wrong are liars and dogs and publican heathens, although technically I'm not calling you those things since I am not using your name in the same sentence.

Person A: What?!!! How dare you!! You are accusing me and calling me names, which shouldn't be allowed, whereas when I say the same things about you I am stating the truth, which is ok. I am being led by the Holy Spirit and am right about what scripture says, whereas you are not and are wrong. Scripture tells us that those who are wrong are liars and dogs and publican heathens, although technically I'm not calling you those things since I am not using your name in the same sentence.

Person B: What?!!! How dare you!! You are accusing me and calling me names, which shouldn't be allowed, whereas when I say the same things about you I am stating the truth, which is ok. I am being led by the Holy Spirit and am right about what scripture says, whereas you are not and are wrong. Scripture tells us that those who are wrong are liars and dogs and publican heathens, although technically I'm not calling you those things since I am not using your name in the same sentence.

 

I mention no names...

[Invicta]

Alimantado

It doesn't bother me when I am called names.  Sticks and stones may hurt my bones but names will never hurt me.  I have been called a liar, a false teacher and an heretic on this site.  It doesn't bother me.  The Jesuits consider me to be an heretic so it is no wonder that those who follow their teachings do also.  

Luke 6:22  Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake. 23  Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets. 

 

[MountainChristian]

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

becomes

And God/Jesus shall confirm the new covenant with many for 7 years 

 

 

[Covenanter]

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

becomes

And God/Jesus shall confirm the new covenant with many for 7 years 

 

 

and then open the Gospel of the New Covenant in Jesus' blood to all nations on earth - not excluding Israel.

Does that make God a liar, or purveyor of false promises, or a covenant breaker? NO! NO! NO! 

God cannot lie. He keeps his promises in ways more glorious than could be expressed in terms of the nation & the land. God in Christ lived under the old covenant, was obedient to the terms to perfection, suffered as the covenant surety for his people, & established a new & everlasting covenant in his own blood. 

Many thousands of the people of Israel were converted during the Acts period and formed churches. Believers in Jesus were rejected by the nation's rulers, who were declared "uncircumcised" by the Holy Spirit speaking through Stephen. Acts 7:51 They married & had families, descended form Abraham, as did the unbelieving Jews, but they ceased to identify themselves as Jews, nor as Israelites. "Christians" was the name adopted for them,   with local gatherings being churches.   

 

 

 

[Invicta]

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

becomes

And God/Jesus shall confirm the new covenant with many for 7 years 

 

Ro 15:8  Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

 

I don't see how you work that one out.  

Romans 15:8  Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: What promises but the Covenants?  Also the new covenant was for many, that word again.  Matt 26:28  For this is my blood of the new testament,(covenant) which is shed for many for the remission of sins.  Here is the word 'many' again.

 Jesus ministry to the Jews began at His Baptism.  In the midst of the week he was cut off, and his ministry exclusively to the circumcision till the gentiles in he persons of Cornelius and his family were the first gentiles to be converted and after that the ministry was to many.

 

 

#

 

Edited June 30, 2015 by Invicta

[MountainChristian]

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

verses

And Satan shall confirm the covenant with many for 7 years: and in the midst of the week Satan shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations Satan shall make the Temple desolate, even until the end of the 7th year, and the wrath of God shall be poured upon the desolate.

If the "he" was God/Jesus that would say an everlasting covenant, not one week. "It" being the temple. Desolate meaning destruction

If the destruction of 70AD had happened in 37AD it would remove Covenater's gap problem. Not to mention the 1945+ years without a new heaven and new earth. 

At Jesus' death the sacrifice & oblation didn't cease, that is another problem. Cease means stop as in 70AD it stopped. 

 

[Genevanpreacher]

[Genevanpreacher]

At Jesus' death the sacrifice & oblation didn't cease, that is another problem. Cease means stop as in 70AD it stopped. 

The need for obedience to perform sacrificing and oblations ceased to be of value after Jesus' death on the cross.

The vail of the temple was rent in two, making a way into the holiest place for all mankind. Making the sacrificing and oblations no longer applicable.

Hence the oblations and sacrifices were made to cease.

If they did continue, it was not in obedience, but out of pride and rejection of the atonement of the sacrificial blood of Jesus the Christ.

[MountainChristian]

That's why the word "and" elements this from being Jesus' death on the cross. Jesus didn't cause the overspreading of abominations. If the "he" is Satan, we all know Satan will cause abominations. Plus no where in the new testament does it say to continue to offer meaningless sacrifices is an abomination. 

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Jesus never stood in the Holy Place, Jesus isn't an "it". 

 

 

[Genevanpreacher]

That's why the word "and" elements this from being Jesus' death on the cross. Jesus didn't cause the overspreading of abominations. If the "he" is Satan, we all know Satan will cause abominations. Plus no where in the new testament does it say to continue to offer meaningless sacrifices is an abomination. 

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Jesus never stood in the Holy Place, Jesus isn't an "it". 

Not really understanding what you are talking about here, but Jesus has nothing to do with the 'abomination' that made the 'desolation' of Jerusalem, that was the sinful nature of the Jews themselves in believing in sacrifices and denying the Lord himself as Christ.

[Genevanpreacher]

That's why the word "and" elements this from being Jesus' death on the cross. Jesus didn't cause the overspreading of abominations. If the "he" is Satan, we all know Satan will cause abominations. Plus no where in the new testament does it say to continue to offer meaningless sacrifices is an abomination. 

It doesn't say 'he' or 'it' shall cause the "overspreading of abominations" -

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

But 'he' will make it desolate, like in 70AD.

[Alimantado]

Brother Day,

I wish to thank you for answering my question.

However, before I set my focus upon this matter, I wish to maintain my focus upon the question that I have twice asked of you already --

Do Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 say that a plural number of God's blessings are for all the families and nations of the earth?

Would you please answer this question?

I meant to say something about this but I forgot. Brother Markle, do you happen to have a ballpark figure for the number of days--or months--between you asking Covenantor the question that accompanied this one and you actually getting an answer to it? I'd just like to know when to check back next.

[MountainChristian]

Where is that verse in the new testament that says its an abomination? 

Jesus added to Daniel 9:27, "stand in the holy place", "standing where it ought not". Sacrifices and Obligations do not stand in the holy place. So the "it" isn't a sacrifice and obligation. What did the Jews stand in the holy place from 33.5AD until 37AD? Nothing. 

Plus if the "he" is Jesus additional problems arise when other verses are included in the 33.5 to 37AD time frame. Who was the Antichrist that the Jews accepted? If the verse is future then all these problems vanish. 

[Invicta]

That's why the word "and" elements this from being Jesus' death on the cross. Jesus didn't cause the overspreading of abominations. If the "he" is Satan, we all know Satan will cause abominations. Plus no where in the new testament does it say to continue to offer meaningless sacrifices is an abomination. 

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Jesus never stood in the Holy Place, Jesus isn't an "it". 

 

 

I take it you went to school and learnt to read?

 

 Luke 21:20 ¶  And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21  Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22  For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 

The Abomination of Desolation, Luke tells us, was the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem.  The days of vengeance was the result of The Jews "filling up the measure of their fathers" and murdering their Messiah.  This is what the overspreading abominations were.  Part of the vengeance on the Jews.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Invicta

[MountainChristian]

I take it you went to school and learnt to read?

 

 Luke 21:20 ¶  And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21  Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22  For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 

The Abomination of Desolation, Luke tells us, was the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem.  The days of vengeance was the result of The Jews "filling up the measure of their fathers" and murdering their Messiah.  This is what the overspreading abominations were.  Part of the vengeance on the Jews.

Learnt to read, was too good. I had to give you a like for that. I was laughing till they could hear me outside. That is a very common saying among mountain people. Thanks again for a good laugh. 

I'll reply later after church. I need to clean up and eat a bite.