...don't run!...don't even move!

[ThePilgrim]

I am sorry to disagree John.  The man was stopped for a bad tail light.  The man ran the cop shot him.  It doesn't matter what else ocurred.   Neither the cop nor anyone else was in any danger.  The man was shot because he had a bad tail light and did not bow to a bullies authority.  Surely you don't believe a cop has the duty to shoot anyone who doesn't obey his orders.  There is absolutely no excuse for murder by cop.  If there had not been a video of this occurrence the cop would have got by with murder as is usually the case.

[John81]

I am sorry to disagree John.  The man was stopped for a bad tail light.  The man ran the cop shot him.  It doesn't matter what else ocurred.   Neither the cop nor anyone else was in any danger.  The man was shot because he had a bad tail light and did not bow to a bullies authority.  Surely you don't believe a cop has the duty to shoot anyone who doesn't obey his orders.  There is absolutely no excuse for murder by cop.  If there had not been a video of this occurrence the cop would have got by with murder as is usually the case.

​Did you read this which I wrote above:

"Even so the officer was wrong, not following proper police procedures when he pulled and used his gun on the man.

Proper police procedure would have been to give foot pursuit while calling for back-up. There was no immediate threat of violence or life threatening situation to warrant the use of the gun. As well, even if the young healthy cop couldn't catch the slowly running 50 year old man, he had the man's drivers license and car so he could have easily been tracked down later."

The officer was 100% wrong to shoot the man but it was the man who initially escalated the situation by running from the officer. The officer was not bullying the man by telling him to remain in his car. That's standard police procedure.

The man was wrong, and outside the law, when he chose to run. No, he didn't deserve to be shot for that and I've already said the officer was totally in the wrong and not following proper police procedure when he chose to shoot the man for no justifiable reason.

Had the man remained seated in his car it's probable he would be alive today, the officer would be unknown to us and the traffic stop would have been just another routine traffic stop among multiple thousands a day across the country.

[heartstrings]

I'm thinking there could be more to this incident than meets the eye; like the officer may have executed the man for some real or perceived offense he did in the past. Why else would the man run, and why else would an officer of the law take careful aim and shoot a man in the back 5 times? That was cold, calculated murder.

Edited April 10, 2015 by heartstrings

[John81]

I'm thinking there could be more to this incident than meets the eye; like the officer may have executed the man for some real or perceived offense he did in the past. Why else would the man run, and why else would an officer of the law take careful aim and shoot a man in the back 5 times? That was cold, calculated murder.

​A family member of the man said he was behind of child support or spousal payments and might have feared being arrested for that. Sounds like a lame reason to run but people have run for much less.

Looking at the initial contact video there seemed to be no malice on the officers part and the man seemed to be cooperating until he decided to get out of his car and run.

The officer, two years ago, had been accused of using excessive force. It's very possible the officer had problems dealing with anger or with those who refused to listen to him which prompted him to shoot when there was absolutely no reason to do so.

Hopefully the investigation will shed more light on the situation. The newly released video of the initial contact has been helpful in filling in a part of the story.

All in all a very bad situation which should have ended with nothing more than a warning ticket for the broken taillight.

[Potatochip]

Sad.  Not sure what happened.  I was talking with a county judge here on the streets.  She asked me what I thought of recent police shootings that came with protests.  I responded.  I don't know.  lol.  Because I didn't.  I don't know all the particulars.  I didn't look at the evidence. 

The Centurions of yesterday are the police of today.  My opinion.  To me I  realize that with the scope of power they have been given.  Which is a lot.  This unfortunate incident should that officer be found guilty.  Won't change that.  That's Gods authority not anyone else's.  He gives it out.   Its for your protection.  Same in Tokyo, Paris and just about everywhere else.  Call it Gods grace if you want. 

All the complaining and incidents won't change that.  The police aren't a toy or a political issue.  That's something that is Gods.  It's a calling I believe.  Take a run at the authority God has given out.  My opinion lol.  You going to wind up with a headache before anything happens against that. 

Like I say that authority if God ever took that away.  I would be heading for the city limits as fast as my legs could carry me.  I thank the God and the police for every time they have showed up in a tight situations.  Some of the places I go you come to certain realizations. I myself don't carry a gun or any weapon.  I am never afraid.  Because of that authority God has given.  It's plain.  Seeing Gods authority with the police.  To Me.   Its like a miracle one might witness.    Maybe a healing or seeing someone get up and walk that was in a wheelchair.  Its something God does.  Like speaking in tongue's or the other wonderful things,  God does.  That lets you know He is the great I AM.  

One note.  That man was a Christian that was killed.  The mother was heartbroken.  She raised her child she said in the congregation as a child. In the congregation all his life.  He was a believer.   

There are a lot more Christians in the cities than people realize.  As well out in the rural areas I am sure lol.  Don't be afraid to go in the city and have a look around.  You may have more protection there than you realize. 

 

Street preacher harassed by drunken parrot.  (strong language)

 

 

That's  Jesse Morrell.  I have never met him.  However he is friends with some of my friends.  I don't preach like this.  More of one on one soul winning with me.  He draws crowds and preaches.  He's a strong young guy that goes to a lot of college campuses, preaching.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Potatochip

[ThePilgrim]

Not much need to be said about the cops here.  I could say one thing though.  They use to hang horse thieves didn't they . . . . got off easy, huh?

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Man-on-Stolen-Horse-Stunned-by-Sheriffs-Deputies-in-IE-299250951.html

Edited April 10, 2015 by ThePilgrim

[John81]

Not much need to be said about the cops here.  I could say one thing though.  They use to hang horse thieves didn't they . . . . got off easy, huh?

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Man-on-Stolen-Horse-Stunned-by-Sheriffs-Deputies-in-IE-299250951.html

​Funny you mention the horse thief aspect because that was my first thought when they said he had stolen a horse. Of course back then stealing a persons horse could be a matter of life and death.

Unless there is something totally missing from this story those deputies were very much in the wrong for beating a man who has surrendered and for standing around watching while others take their turn beating a surrendered man.

With so many deputies involved in this it should be clear this isn't a case of one bad cop, or even two, but a case of poor training, poor attitudes and poor accountability.

The man shouldn't have run. That's both a legal fact and what should be a common sense fact. That out of the way, him running and then surrendering in an obvious manner doesn't warrant him being tasered once in a position of complete surrender and then beaten over and over again by multiple deputies while other deputies stand by watching.

Once the man assumed a position of obvious surrender one deputy should have covered him with the taser while the other hand cuffed him. Incident over, walk him to the police car, drive him to the department for processing, the cops go get their drinks of water.

One main problem, which may have been a factor here, is the military style training these officers are put through which is designed to frighten and confuse the enemy. I've seen many cases where a suspect tries to surrender, the police begin shouting at him loudly and aggressively, giving him orders to change position, to stop doing something, to do something else, all shouted rapid fire in a manner which many people can't comprehend or process under such circumstances.

Often a suspect will surrender by laying on the ground and placing his hands behind his back, meanwhile officers are yelling for him to put his hands on his head, spread his legs, don't move, do what I told you, stop resisting arrest (to which we so often hear the suspect crying out they aren't resisting) as the officer seems to be pulling their arm one way while telling them to move their arm the other way.

These tactics work great for dealing with a deadly enemy in combat situations but they don't serve well for police interactions with citizens.

Along with this sort of military training the police are taught to take authority, to view any perceived lack of respect for their authority as a threat to which they are trained to ratchet up both their verbal assaults and go into physical assault mode. Once again, great for the military in a combat situation but inappropriate for police and citizen interactions.

To this particular video, from what was shown it seems clear the first two officers to reach the man should, at the very least, be suspended without pay pending investigation. The others should be placed on restricted duty pending investigation.

Sad to say but many are allowed into the police force today that would have never been allowed in such a position when we were born.

[Alimantado]

However, don't be so quick to condemn the U.S. police and embrace the "more humane" police tactics of European nations. We're going far enough to the left in the U.S. as it stands. 

​Further to other's comments, how is UK-style policing left wing? The UK police were set up with the aim of 'policing by consent', whereby the public were to trust and accept the police as peace keepers and law enforcers serving their interest, not as a paramilitary force serving political interests. That's why the decision was taken not to arm the police--for the sake of trust. Now that sounds almost libertarian to me, not lefty.

Of course, what works in one country isn't necessarily best for another, because of history and local circumstances. For example, police are routinely armed in Northern Ireland.

As for all the stats--the US has about 5 times the number of people the UK has.

[Potatochip]

I think guns are illegal in England.  They don't carry swords like the Centurions did.  I assume they did.  They carry clubs and have backups with guns. 

Fact is its Gods authority given to these people.  Not mine lol.  You can think about it anyway you want.  Police in Tokyo (safest city in the world by stats).  Paris, Madrid.  One might get the idea its not subject to what people think or want.  It's what God has established. One might say its very much military.  In that they have rank.  Take orders. The regulars are uniformed.  They are heavily armed.   Their funerals they are honored just like military.  Its a very dangerous job sometimes.  Sometimes they don't have time to think.  Just react.  They don't always know what the other guy is going to do.  In many cases.  Especially in summer in the cities they run from call to call.  Making arrests.  Not knowing what they are walking into.  People pull guns, knives, run.  Some have automatic weapons.  There are gangs.  Sometimes ambushes.  Dangerous drug dealers and pimps just to name a few.  All kinds of criminal's.  That don't want to be put behind bars.  In addition there are some criminals.  That would very much like to see them harmed.

They aren't toll booth operators or are they people that work at the drivers license windows.   They deal with crime.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Potatochip

[heartstrings]

Tater,

Everybody here knows that. The Bible says that the "powers that be" are "God's ministers" and that they "bear not the sword in vain" BECAUSE of evil. But when you end up with a government like Nazi Germany which began to persecute and then later murder it's own citizens, and Iraq, Russia, Red China, North Korea etc etc. then you realize that governments are made up of sinners and can be criminals like everybody else. None of us here are advocating anarchy, rebellion, or even dissent. But we have a constitutional government which originally had laws and guarantees that safeguarded against government tyranny and abuse and we want it to stay that way. That rogue policeman is a murderer and he needs to be dealt with severely with "the sword".

Edited April 10, 2015 by heartstrings
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[ThePilgrim]

This is probably not wise on my part but I am going to suggest a book.

Resistance to Tyrants: Romans 13 and the Christian Duty to Oppose Wicked Rulers

Available on Kindle from Amazon

 

[1Timothy115]

This is probably not wise on my part but I am going to suggest a book.

Resistance to Tyrants: Romans 13 and the Christian Duty to Oppose Wicked Rulers

Available on Kindle from Amazon

 

​Do a short review and put it in the movie/books forum...nothing wrong with that.

[Potatochip]

I guess.  I'm not on the jury.  So I don't know like I said before.  I don't think Rome was any better than some of the Governments you named.  I guess that could be the case.  Paul seemed impressed.  After all he was in some really bad situations.  When Imprisoned he called himself a prisoner of Jesus Christ.  Jesus the Savior no less. Told Pilate you would have no power over me If not from above. Jesus had to fulfill the Gospel.  Christ is over every principality and power now.  If I lived in those countries.  I would show those leaders the respect.  Because the powers that be are Gods Ministers.  So are they criminals or "Gods Ministers".   Hitler violated international law.  That's what made him a criminal.  Since they are Gods Ministers.  Which to me sounds like a calling.  Even in the OT.  It was God that raised them up or put them down.  I really have little say in that. 

So I don't like slandering people especially ordained by God.  Its not what I do.  If I don't have the proof.  All I know is what I read or see.  I don't consider the media as "Ministers of God".  The man in question already  seems to be judged and hung without a trial.  Which last time I knew.  The media has not been appointed to judge or hang anyone without a trial.  That includes me no one appointed me judge or jury in this civil matter.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Potatochip

[1Timothy115]

So far, doing everything legal has resulted in ZERO times that I've been:

Shot by police
Tased by police
Baton-ed by police
Kicked by police
Punched by police
Handcuffed by police
Stopped by the police

You would think, after all the states I've been in and with all the misguided killer cops in the United States at least one of the above should have happened to me. I know, I don't have a video of police not beating me but, you'll just have to take my word for it. You may believe I may have been hanging out in all the right places but, I'll tell you honestly that would not be true.

[ThePilgrim]

So far, doing everything legal has resulted in ZERO times that I've been:

​You may not think you have done anything illegal, but you are not an office filled with a thousand government lawyers, so maybe you shouldn't be so sure.