Similarities Between Mormonism And Catholicism

[MountainChristian]

TLC found a loon who has 5 wives but do modern Mormons have extra wifes?

[Covenanter]

I understand that during the RCC persecutions of Christians, they used the rack & burning to avoid shedding (innocent) blood.

[HappyChristian]

TLC found a loon who has 5 wives but do modern Mormons have extra wifes?

 

 

President Gordon B. Hinckley, prior president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made the following statement in 1998 about the Church’s position on plural marriage:

“This Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church.... If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church.”

At various times, the Lord has commanded His people to practice plural marriage. For example, He gave this command to Abraham, Isaac, JacOB, Moses, David, and Solomon (Doctrine and Covenants 132:1). At other times the Lord has given other instructions. In the Book of Mormon, the Lord told the prophet JacOB “for there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife: and concubines he shall have none... for if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things (JacOB 2:27-30).

In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they OBeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood. In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration 1).

The Lord’s law of marriage is monogamy unless he commands otherwise to help establish the House of Israel (see Encyclopedia of Mormonism Vol. 3, pp. 1091-1095).

Current church position on polygamy.  But, yes, there are others who practice polygamy.  

[ThePilgrim]

TLC found a loon who has 5 wives but do modern Mormons have extra wifes?

A loon with 5 wives . . . . silly goose prOBably spends most of his life ducking for cover. 

Sorry  I couldn't help myself.

 

God bless,

Larry

[Ukulelemike]

On Polygamy, what we see as mormonism is actually the reformed LDS church out of Utah-the ACTUAL LDS group are those who still follow the teachings of Smith, not Bring'em Young, who basically sought to completely re-work the organization. But the true faithful still teach and practice polygamy, because Smith claimed that God declared it to be an everlasting covenant-so they believe it is. As well, according to Smith AND current church doctrine, one cannot attain godhood unless one has more than one wife. They get away with this by marrying by proxy-marrying other people in the temple, but it means nothing in this life, only the next. Its my understanding that ol Joe Smith is going to have thousands of wives, as many have married him in proxy since he died.

 

So they baptize the dead by proxy AND marry the dead by proxy. How crazy is THAT?

[Miss Daisy]

so then Woodrow Wilson was the first Mormon president? otherwise, why would the Mormons care if he received a revelation? first I heard of this "revelation".

[DaveW]

I have a book called "Where does it say that?" that is page after page of photocopied articles from various Mormon publications with sections underlined, and mostly without further comment - the quotes are where they occur on the page to give better context to such comments.

This allows contextual reading of comments that are from their own official publications, which are at times astounding in the things being taught.

For instance, Page 158 of "The Seer" by Orson Pratt, 1853:
"The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful Wife because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Saviour unlawfully.It would have been unlawful for any man to have interfered with Mary, who was espoused to Joseph; for such a heinous crime would have subjected both the guilty parties to death, according to the law of Moses. But God having created all men and women, had the most perfect right to do with His own creation, according to His holy will and pleasure: He had the right to overshadow the Virgin Mary in the capacity of a husband, and beget a Son, although she was espoused to another; for the law which He gave to govern men and women was not intended to govern Himself, or to prescribe rules for his own conduct."

There is no comment in this book at this point, just sections of this underlined, and the rest of the page where this text is found is shown in its entirety.

Similarities to RC and mirrors other false teachings as well. ...

Good book this one. .

Compiler (no author as such) is a guy named BOB White; no publishing details in the book, no date, no nothing......

[HappyChristian]

Brigham Young taught polygamy.  He, in fact, had 55 wives, vs, Smith's 48. The Doctrine and Covenants forbade polygamy until 1876 - under Brigham Young.

 

The pertinent part of Doctrine and Covenants section 101:  

 

 

 Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband,

This, of course, was reaction to the horrible reputation Smith gave the group.

 

In 1842, D&C 101 was amended to add this:

 

 

We have given the above rule of marriage as the only one practiced in this church, to show that Dr. J. C. Bennett's "secret wife system" is a matter of his own manufacture; and further to disabuse the public ear, and shew [show] that the said Bennett and his misanthropic friend Origen Bachelor, are perpetrating a foul and infamous slander upon an innocent people, and need but be known to be hated and despise. In support of this position, we present the following certificates:- 

We the undersigned members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and residents of the city of Nauvoo, persons of families do hereby certify and declare that we know of no other rule or system of marriage than the one published from the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and we give this certificate to show that Dr. J. C. Bennett's "secret wife system" is a creature of his own make as we know of no such society in this place nor never did. 

 

But in 1843, this was removed and section 132 was put in there - the section that endorsed polygamy.  And it remains there today - it's in the copy that we have as well.  Old Joe just kept marrying women...and this was when he revealed himself to his first wife.  Funny, the revelation stated that if Emma rejected it she would be destroyed. She rejected it (at the age of 39), and a year later Joseph was dead.  She lived to be 75.  Methinks that alone should make people pause as to the accuracy of their doctrine...!

 

In 1844, Smith cut off Hyram Brown from the church for preaching polygamy - after he received the "revelation."  Then his brother officiates at a polygamous wedding, but days later denies polygamy.  SMH.  After being exposed, Smith is jailed and then murdered. In OctOBer of that month, Sidney Rigdon admits they practice it, the next month official LDS word was they didn't.  in fact, in 185, the third Mormon prophet - John Taylor - denied polygamy while he had at least 7 (some say 12) wives.

 

in 1852, LDS finally publicly admitted it and in 1854 began to encourage it.

 

 

 

When the family organization was revealed from heaven - the patriarchal order of God, and Joseph began, on the right and on the left, to add to his family, what a quaking there was in Israel. Says one brother to another, 'Joseph says all covenants are done away, and none are binding but the new covenants: now suppose Joseph should come and say he wanted your wife, what would you say to that?' 'I would tell him to go to hell.' This was the spirit of many in the early days of this Church... What would a man of God say, who felt aright, when Joseph asked him for his money? He would say, "Yes, and I wish I had more to help to build up the kingdom of God." Or if he came and said, "I want your wife?" "O yes," he would say, "here she is, there are plenty more"... Did the Prophet Joseph want every man's wife he asked for?... If such a man of God should come to me and say, "I want your gold and silver, or your wives," I should say, "Here they are, I wish I had more to give you, take all I have got."  - Jebediah Grant, first presidency counselor, in the Journal of Discourses 2:13-14  (just ick, man!)

 

But they also condemned polygamy that took place before 1842!

 

Brigham Young, prophet in 1866, said polygamy was more important than statehood.  

 

 

Do you think that we shall ever be admitted as a State into the Union without denying the principle of polygamy?" If we are not admitted until, we shall never be admitted.  - Journal of Discourses 11:269

[HappyChristian]

1879, prophet John Taylor: 

 

 

I was asked, “Do you believe in OBeying the laws of the United States?” Yes I do, in all except one—in fact I had not broken that. “What law is that?” The law in relation to polygamy.  - Journal of Discourses 20:317

 

In 1890, with pressure from the government, Wilford Woodruff - LDS president had the revelation to end it.  The 1890 Manifesto.

But it didn't end there.  Joseph R. Smith, sixth prophet, issued the Second Manifesto which condemned polygamy. (Miss Daisy, I think Woodruff is who you are referencing - he was never POTUS, but was rather LDS president [prophet] - we've never had a Mormon POTUS, although they have an old prophecy that states that a Mormon will save the Constitution)  Woodruff's statement was made in Oct. 1890. A year later he started calling it a revelation.  It was canonnized in 1908.

 

 

The Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized... also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice.  - D&C, Official Declaration - 1

 

In 1905, in protest of Joseph F. Smith's Second Manifesto, John Taylor and Matthias Cowley resigned from the Quorum of 12 - because they both had multiple wives.

 

In 1943, apostle Richare Lyman was discovered to be secretly practicing it.

 

And in 1958. Bruce R. McConkie, apostle, said:

 

 

OBviously the holy practice [plural marriage] will commence again after the Second Coming of the Son of Man and the ushering in of the millennium.

 

In fact, it was taught that the only men who could become gods had to have plural wives -

 

 

Brigham Young:  

The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy.

Joseph F. Smith: Some people have supposed that the doctrine of plural marriage was a sort of superfluity, or nonessential to the salvation or exaltation of mankind. In other words, some of the Saints have said, and believe, that a man with one wife, sealed to him by the authority of the Priesthood for time and eternity, will receive an exaltation as great and glorious, if he is faithful, as he possibly could with more than one. I want here to enter my solemn protest against this idea, for I know it is false ... [p.28] 

 

... it is useless to tell me that there is no blessing attached to OBedience to the law, or that a man with only one wife can OBtain as great a reward, glory or kingdom as he can with more than one, being equally faithful.[p.29-30]   (that's the rest of his quote - don't know why it was knocked out of the other balloon)

 

 

Their history teaches that if polygamy isn't true, neither is celestial marriage. But that it will exist in the afterlife.  And that Father is a polygamist.

 

 

 

"When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives with him."  "The Scripture says that He, the Lord, came walking in the Temple, with His train; I do no know who they were, unless His wives and children...'

 

 

These are both Brigham Young, from the Journal of Discourses 1:50 and 13:309 respectively.

(sorry about the quotes thing...)

Young strongly believed in the "principle."  Under him, women who did not cooperate were not well treated.  

 

Other than the absolute falsity of their doctrine, this idea of men becoming gods creates men who act like they are god here on the earth.  Once sealed in the temple for "time and eternity", many of these men have a drastic personality change - and not in any way for the better!  Nowadays, instead of plural wives, divorce is acceptable.  BUT!  If the first marriage was sealed, then any subsequent wives do not have the chance to be called up in eternity by their husbands to create spirit children. That thought does a real number psychologically on second wives.  

 

I have been told by more than one mormon that polygamy will once again be practiced - and accepted.  It is still, as was mentioned earlier, part of their canon.  The groups who practice it openly now are splinter groups.  But they will be able to claim that they brought the church back into the light once the church again condones it.

[HappyChristian]

so then Woodrow Wilson was the first Mormon president? otherwise, why would the Mormons care if he received a revelation? first I heard of this "revelation".

I mentioned this in my long post, but it wasn't Wilson. The Mormon president referenced was Wilford Woodruff.  The US has never had a Mormon POTUS.  

[Miss Daisy]

Thanks for clarification! I didn't think we'd ever had a Mormon president. I can't keep any of their "revelations" straight. Way too confusing.

[Covenanter]

a born again nun?

We don't know how many RCs are saved. We can assume some common doctrine, trinity, death and resurrection of Christ as our Saviour, confused by much error. How did Jesus relate to the very faulty understanding of the Samaritan woman? Their common need - "give me a drink." The barriers of centuries of hatred were lifted by that simple request, & fruitful conversation ensued.

 

We have to build trust before we can break prejudice.

[Allen]

Similar to the Mormon teaching, the RCC teaches that men become God.

 

It's buried in the bowels of their catechism, but it's there...

 

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

SECOND EDITION

 

PART ONE

THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION TWO

THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

 

CHAPTER TWO

I BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY SON OF GOD

 

ARTICLE 3

"HE WAS CONCEIVED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY"

 

Paragraph 1. The Son of God Became Man

 

I. WHY DID THE WORD BECOME FLESH?

 

460 The Word became flesh to make us...

 

***** "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." *****

 

 

"The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."

 

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p1.htm

[Allen]

Covenanter said...

 

We can assume some common doctrine

 

 

 

 

Well, let's see...

 

they bake a cookie, call it god, then eat it to gain 'grace' - Idolatrous blasphemy

 

they play with religious beads - Idolatry

 

they use those beads to pray to a dead human, expecting a service from that dead human - Necromancy

 

I'm failing to see the commonality between the RCC and IFB.

 

We have to build trust before we can break prejudice.

 

 

This is not about prejudice. 

 

Rather, there is a message from God when that commonality just isn't there...

 

 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 

 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. 2John 1:10 & 11 KJB