Definition of an IFB

[Annie]

independence has to do with 'spiritual' control.

Yes. And the term independence also implies that "IFB doctrine" (as in a specific body of doctrine and practice that all IFB's agree with across the board) is a misnomer. Being independent means not being grouped in with anyone else. Sure, we can explore ways that different IFB churches are similar...but differentiating between "IFB doctrine" and mainstream evangelical doctrine is treating IFB churches (each of which are independent of each other) as if they are a denomination. I will say that, from what I've observed, the one doctrine that every IFB church espouses that mainstream evangelical churches do not espouse is the doctrine of separation (but each IFB church applies it differently). But while positions like KJVO, pants on women, anti-Calvinism, and anti-CCM might be areas of commonality among some IFB churches, they are not "IFB positions."

I attend an IFB church where Reformed doctrine is taught; women wear pants; families worship together; multiple versions of the Bible are used; no form of CCM or southern gospel is ever used for worship; and public, "come-forward" invitations are rarely given. That might look a lot different than your IFB church...but that's the point: we're independent, right?

[Anon]

Our church is registered for the same reasons mentioned earlier, protection of the pastor and members in case of a lawsuit. Anyway...it was done before we got here, why change it. Its not made an issue.

What makes me sad is that it seems that we have a handful of "IFBx" churches that micromanage their congregations, force standards on their people, and make extrabiblical rules.

Then, you get this huge group of people that get a knee jerk reaction saying "We hate IFB rules, we hate IFB pastors, we are going to live how we want because we love God in our own way, and God sees and understands our hearts." Further, they then attack people having standards in the right way....any women wearing skirts are looked at with the untrusting eye and labeled "IFBx" in their minds. Anybody who doesn't listen to CCM is assumed to be making "man made rules". Anybody who wants to go to church every time the doors are open are assumed to be following the strict pastor's rules. But this is NOT a fair assumption. Some people really do seperate from the world because they love God and want to be a light in their community, because they feel the Bible calls them to do so.

It makes me mad that a few overly strict churches without compassion have given so many Christians an excuse for laxity. Unfortunately, excuses won't fly at the judgement seat. I guess this is slightly off topic...but at the same time, I think seperation from the world has always been, in the past, one of the main things that seperates Baptists from other denominations.

[deafnva77]

I've always thought independent is just another word for local church.

One church does not speak for another church...

[JerryNumbers]

Their are denominations that seems to separate more from the world than many Baptist that I know, Holiness and Mennonites. The way they dress rightly separates them and they usually stand out from everyone else, especially the women. You'll never see their women in pants nor have their faces covered with a thick layer of makeup.

Most all Baptist that I know of during the weekdays when you see them out and about they look and dress just like the world an join in with the same groups and clubs that the world loves so much. There is a IBF church on the other side of town which a woman belongs to who is a member of the Red Hatters. Here some time back they had an article in our local paper and interviewed her, it was embarrassing to me just to read the interview knowing she was a Baptist.

[Anon]

I've always thought independent is just another word for local church.

One church does not speak for another church...

Right...Independent means we don't answer to a central board, like SBC.

[Danny Carlton]

Yes. And the term independence also implies that "IFB doctrine" (as in a specific body of doctrine and practice that all IFB's agree with across the board) is a misnomer. Being independent means not being grouped in with anyone else. Sure, we can explore ways that different IFB churches are similar...but differentiating between "IFB doctrine" and mainstream evangelical doctrine is treating IFB churches (each of which are independent of each other) as if they are a denomination. I will say that, from what I've observed, the one doctrine that every IFB church espouses that mainstream evangelical churches do not espouse is the doctrine of separation (but each IFB church applies it differently). But while positions like KJVO, pants on women, anti-Calvinism, and anti-CCM might be areas of commonality among some IFB churches, they are not "IFB positions."

I attend an IFB church where Reformed doctrine is taught; women wear pants; families worship together; multiple versions of the Bible are used; no form of CCM or southern gospel is ever used for worship; and public, "come-forward" invitations are rarely given. That might look a lot different than your IFB church...but that's the point: we're independent, right?

But that's the real purpose of denominations--to know the distinctiveness of a local congregation. Congregations are grouped by denominational titles so when one goes to a different town, it's easier to find which congregation worships, believes, teaches, etc, the way you do. When you start getting into one title that matches such a wide swath of beliefs and practices, what good does it do? I'm not sure how they do it, but Evangelical Free are not organized from the top down, the are locally funded (as are their missionaries) but I've found a strong consistencies in the beliefs and worship styles among the various E Free congregations I've visited. Unfortunately I find Southern Baptist church have developed too much "diversity" so that one can't know what worship style or doctrines you'll find at any given church. Since I've never visited an IFB, I can't speak for them, but I'd hope you guys aren't making the mistake of allowing the concept of "freedom" and "diversity" to make your identity meaningless.

BTW, the current church I attend teaches Reformed doctrine, women wear pants (and some have short hair), multiple versions of the Bible are used , and they rarely have an invitation. But over 70% of the members are homeschooling families, so they are very, very friendly to homeschoolers. The biggest "selling point" to us. Personally I don't have a problem with Reformed theology; would prefer women wear pants and have long hair, but it's not that big of a deal; and would also very much prefer KJV as the scripture used. I also like that having no invitation puts the burden of evangelism on the members, not the pastor, where it belongs, but, unfortunately our pastor just left for another church, so the elders almost immediately jumped into a Evangelism Program that I feel is way too assertive. Strong discipleship and good theology unerringly leads to a lifestyle of personal evangelism. When church leaders teach evangelism instead of solid doctrine, it create weak evangelists, and hampers the overall mission of the church. (Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread)

[Anon]

In our church the invitation is as much for the members to get right with God as it is salvation...but that is of course each church's decision, rather than something actually in the Bible. However the Bible does teach a basic idea of making your stand for Christ public, and that is I guess where churches get it. I don't think the NT church was as private as we as Americans are today.

Just thoughts...not arguments. :cooldude:

[Annie]

BTW, the current church I attend teaches Reformed doctrine, women wear pants (and some have short hair), multiple versions of the Bible are used , and they rarely have an invitation. But over 70% of the members are homeschooling families, so they are very, very friendly to homeschoolers. The biggest "selling point" to us.

Danny, do you attend my church? Should I look for you on Sunday? What you have described is exactly like our church, only I'd say that more than 70% of the kids are homeschooled. Our church is B_____ Bible Church...The "IFB" is not in the name, but underneath the church name on the sign are the words "Independent Baptist Church." Our church polity is Baptistic, not "Bible-istic." :wink

[Colin Stolzer]

Their are denominations that seems to separate more from the world than many Baptist that I know, Holiness and Mennonites. The way they dress rightly separates them and they usually stand out from everyone else, especially the women. You'll never see their women in pants nor have their faces covered with a thick layer of makeup.

Most all Baptist that I know of during the weekdays when you see them out and about they look and dress just like the world an join in with the same groups and clubs that the world loves so much. There is a IBF church on the other side of town which a woman belongs to who is a member of the Red Hatters. Here some time back they had an article in our local paper and interviewed her, it was embarrassing to me just to read the interview knowing she was a Baptist.

Do you include yourself in this statement or do you dress in a distinct way that shows your separation from the world?

C

[Annie]

I've always thought independent is just another word for local church.

One church does not speak for another church...

I think you are right about this, if you're talking about "independent" churches...but this is not true of denominational churches. I know b/c I attended a Nazarene church for a good bit of my childhood. A church which belongs to a denomination answers to higher-ups in that denominational organization...IOW, people who are not members of that church. Those higher-ups decide what SS curriculum the church will use, what pastors will candidate at that church, what doctrine that church will accept, etc. They visit the church occasionally to help things along and see how the church is doing. Denominational local churches are not "independent," but dependent on the denomination for many things. But truly independent churches are free to determine their own courses of action.

[Danny Carlton]

Danny, do you attend my church? Should I look for you on Sunday? What you have described is exactly like our church, only I'd say that more than 70% of the kids are homeschooled. Our church is Bethany Bible Church...The "IFB" is not in the name, but underneath the church name on the sign are the words "Independent Baptist Church." Our church polity is Baptistic, not "Bible-istic."

We go to Tulsa Bible Church. They're not really identified as with any denomination, but the spell out their beliefs and organizational structure pretty well on their web site. They weren't as clear about their worship style so I called them before we started going there to find out, and was satisfied with the description.

[Truthseeking]

But that's the real purpose of denominations--to know the distinctiveness of a local congregation. Congregations are grouped by denominational titles so when one goes to a different town, it's easier to find which congregation worships, believes, teaches, etc, the way you do. When you start getting into one title that matches such a wide swath of beliefs and practices, what good does it do? I'm not sure how they do it, but Evangelical Free are not organized from the top down, the are locally funded (as are their missionaries) but I've found a strong consistencies in the beliefs and worship styles among the various E Free congregations I've visited. Unfortunately I find Southern Baptist church have developed too much "diversity" so that one can't know what worship style or doctrines you'll find at any given church. Since I've never visited an IFB, I can't speak for them, but I'd hope you guys aren't making the mistake of allowing the concept of "freedom" and "diversity" to make your identity meaningless.

BTW, the current church I attend teaches Reformed doctrine, women wear pants (and some have short hair), multiple versions of the Bible are used , and they rarely have an invitation. But over 70% of the members are homeschooling families, so they are very, very friendly to homeschoolers. The biggest "selling point" to us. Personally I don't have a problem with Reformed theology; would prefer women wear pants and have long hair, but it's not that big of a deal; and would also very much prefer KJV as the scripture used. I also like that having no invitation puts the burden of evangelism on the members, not the pastor, where it belongs, but, unfortunately our pastor just left for another church, so the elders almost immediately jumped into a Evangelism Program that I feel is way too assertive. Strong discipleship and good theology unerringly leads to a lifestyle of personal evangelism. When church leaders teach evangelism instead of solid doctrine, it create weak evangelists, and hampers the overall mission of the church. (Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread)

Hmmm, Thought provoking, I attended a IBF church and school that was strict. They allowed no pants, or short hair for women, but they did allow koolots during sporting activities for them. No hair longer than 3 inches for guys and no kinds of imprinted logos on shirts, skirts, or pants for either sexes.

Bible does say women should have long hair, and guys should have short. The question becomes how short is short and how long is long. I do agree that doctine should come first, then the standards out of the doctrine. Thats my understanding.

[deafnva77]

I think you are right about this, if you're talking about "independent" churches...but this is not true of denominational churches. I know b/c I attended a Nazarene church for a good bit of my childhood. A church which belongs to a denomination answers to higher-ups in that denominational organization...IOW, people who are not members of that church. Those higher-ups decide what SS curriculum the church will use, what pastors will candidate at that church, what doctrine that church will accept, etc. They visit the church occasionally to help things along and see how the church is doing. Denominational local churches are not "independent," but dependent on the denomination for many things. But truly independent churches are free to determine their own courses of action.

I know it is not true about denominational church. Which add on to the meaning of "independent"

[Truthseeking]

Finally something to really talk about.....

Independent - Not under nor responsible to any external hierarchy or ecclesiastical order or denomination.

Fundamental - Adhering to the fundamentals of the Christian faith as put forth in the Word of God.

Baptist - Identifying with and adhering to historically "Baptist" distinctives and practices; especially total immersion of only those who have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. This would exclude small children who are not of sufficient mental maturity to understand how to place their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation and the meaning of baptism.

I learned in Christian school that if the Bible is your boss, you're a Baptist.

I also learned the Baptist acrostic:

B - Biblical Authority
A - Autonomy of the local church
P - Priesthood of the Believer
T - Two offices (Paster & Deacon)
I - Inspiration and Preservation of Scripture
S - Separation
T - Two ordinances (Baptism & Lord's Supper)

That's what being an IFB means to me.

I think I mostly agree with trc123. I'd actually fit that definition of a fundamentalist. I don't hate fundamentalists, many are my friends, I just rather identify with a group that is even closer to what I believe.

Something I have noticed though about a lot of IFB's (not all) is that to certain ones of them, standards are more important than doctrine. Haha but I know a Bible believer like that too...only one though LOL. I'm not saying standards are not important, I just believe that doctrine is MORE important.

Independent means we don't answer to a central board, like SBC.

Doctrine first and out of that come standards has always been my thinking. As far as the SBC I've heard stuff about them but don't know enough. We should be living the way the bible says not the way we think nor the way the world thinks we should be.

[Annie]

We go to Tulsa Bible Church. They're not really identified as with any denomination, but the spell out their beliefs and organizational structure pretty well on their web site. They weren't as clear about their worship style so I called them before we started going there to find out, and was satisfied with the description.

In our "mountain" area of the country, "independent Baptist" churches are, to put it kindly, more known for their "rantin' and ravin', "windsucking" preachers and superstitious, almost cultic ideas than they are for their solid, informed standing on Scripture. Our "independent Baptist" church is not at all this way. People are pleasantly surprised when they enter our church and hear rational preaching based on a sound exegesis of Scripture. People say things like, "We didn't know a church like this even existed!" and then stay to hear more. My point here is that our church is of a very different stripe than various other "independent Baptist" churches in our community. "Independent" means just that. There is no agreed-upon set of "IFB doctrine and practice" across the board, like there is in a "denomination."