Marriage, Remarriage, Divorce

[JimsHelpmeet]

Isn't this the way it is too often? I used to have families with children, but they all left to go to churches that had "more for the kids". I told them, Why not stay and help MAKE something for the kids? Nope, rather leave and find something already set. So they left-one now church-hops, and the other goes to a Pentecostal church, but only because he is friends with the pastor and feels bad because they are so small. (Oddly, he's MY friend as well, and we're small, but he no longer comes to our church, so what does that say?)

people would rather sacrifice good doctrine for weak, because of the other 'benefits'. My friend at the pentecostal church even agrees that its wrong that the pastor's wife gets up and teaches and speaks in 'tongues' spontaneously, agrees that its unscriptural, but still goes. Not sure what he's getting out of it.

This is a prOBlem we're having at our church as well. At every single church business meeting people lament that we're losing the kids, we're losing the young families, we're down in numbers, but whenever suggestions are made, people bristle. We have a church work day, only five people show up. And I know this may be nosy, but I sit near the back of our sanctuary, and I see how many established members pass the collection plate without putting so much as a dollar in it. Most months our church barely squeaks by. We can't even afford VBS this year, nor do we have enough adults willing to help five nights a week. 

 

They just opened a new contemporary church in our area and we've lost a lot of people to it. We lost another chunk of the congregation when Andy Stanley's satellite church opened its doors in Canton. The young people complain that the hymns are boring and the KJV is hard to read and then the parents complain that there isn't anything for their kids to do. We've never had any sort of midweek activities for our youth,  because we're fortunate if twelve people show up for Wednesday night adult Bible study.

 

We have a lot of people in our churches today who would rather sit back and "eat the bread of idleness" and be entertained with a laser light show rock concert, even if their conscience is pricked because of it, because it's easy. People want easy churchianity these days. It appeals to the lusts of the flesh.

[John81]

This is part of what we are reaping from a lack of preaching on family matters and what it means to live for Christ. Instead to many of our churches have gone with the flow of the world, allowed aspects of feminism, liberalism, and the "everything has to be about fun and excitement" philosophy come right on in.

 

Then there are churches plagued with complainers and do nothings (often the same people). They will complain about how things are in the church but they won't do anything to try and make things better. They won't give to support church activities, they won't donate their talents or time, often they won't even bother to show up if something is planned. These tend to be among those who don't get their children involved, then complain about lack of things for children. They either grumble their lives away in the church they won't support or eventually wonder off to a "fun" church so their children can play.

 

We have a lot of folks in our churches these days who aren't interested in actually following Christ.

[JimsHelpmeet]

Just another sign we're in the end times.

[John81]

Perhaps, or it could be a sign that since we've turned our backs upon God, God is turning from America. Even as the nations which followed the Lord and served Him eventually turned their backs upon Him and the Lord lifted up another people; most recently England to America, we could be seeing such a shift in progress today.

 

Christianity is spreading in China and India despite efforts in both countries to prevent such. Churches in Africa are holding to biblical standards as they preach against the worldliness overrunning so many American churches.

 

No doubt the Lord's return is closer now than when we first believed, but what might the Lord have in store for us before then?

[swathdiver]

This is a prOBlem we're having at our church as well. At every single church business meeting people lament that we're losing the kids, we're losing the young families, 

 

They just opened a new contemporary church in our area and we've lost a lot of people to it.

 

We lost another chunk of the congregation when Andy Stanley's satellite church opened its doors in Canton.

 

The young people complain that the hymns are boring and the KJV is hard to read and then the parents complain that there isn't anything for their kids to do. 

 

Sounds like your church is shedding its goats, not sheep.  But your sheep are seemingly backslidden.  Maybe it was because of the goats?  Let the lost leave, they shouldn't be members of a New Testament Church anyways, let them eat cake with Andy.

 

Your local church will only win them back when it has won them for Christ.

[robmac68]

 

They just opened a new contemporary church in our area and we've lost a lot of people to it. We lost another chunk of the congregation when Andy Stanley's satellite church opened its doors in Canton. The young people complain that the hymns are boring and the KJV is hard to read and then the parents complain that there isn't anything for their kids to do. We've never had any sort of midweek activities for our youth,  because we're fortunate if twelve people show up for Wednesday night adult Bible study.

 

Sounds like my church.  I have often wondered, though, about the complaint of nothing for the kids to do.  What are they supposed to do?  Why not do what the adults do and listen to some good preaching?  These parents get so used to shoving their kids off to school and having them "out of their hair" then they want to do the same thing in church.  A church certainly can't expect parents to make their children sit still and listen...that is too much work!  I find it sad, we have the complainers saying we lost the children.  The ones complaining are the ones that did not bring their children to church on Sunday and Wednesday nights.  Now their children are grown and not taking the grandkids to church.  These complainers now go to church 3 times a week since their children are grown and out of the house.  But still they blame the church!  They have eyes but cannot see! 

 

[robmac68]

I think it's the case in some churches, yes; however, in some I think it's simply that pastors realize that a sizable portion of the congregation has either been divorced and is either single or has since remarried, so all that would be left to preach on at that point would be the heresy of "perpetual adultery".

"perpetual adultery"

 

Marriage is a covenant between God and the couple.  The couple become one.  The couple then gets a divorce and re-marrys.  Are you saying that God has now made a new covenant with this "re-marriage"?  So God has done away with the old covenant and entered into a new covenant with the re-married couple even though He doesn't allow for divorced couples to re-marry?  That kinda sounds like heresy.

 

God calls re-marraige adultery.  Why?  Because the re-married couple is sleeping with someone that is not their spouse.  Does it sound like God recognizes the remarraige?  He might recognize the fact that we and the government recognize the re-marriage, but if He calls it adultery, how can we say that God recognizes it? 

 

It has been asked, should a re-married couple get a divorce to be right with God and make yet another divorce?  If God doesn't recognize the marriage between divorced couples, is it really another divorce in God's eyes? 

[swathdiver]

1 Corinthians 7:

 

8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.

 

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

 

10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:

 

11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

 

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

 

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

 

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

 

15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

 

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

 

As in the beginning as for the church age, divorce is NOT allowed for any reason.  If divorce does happen, the only options are to remain unmarried or be reconciled as verse 11 states.  Verse 15 if one takes it to mean one can remarry, then contradicts verse 11, and that is wrong.  Widows are free to remarry as verse 9 states.

 

Why is there so much wrong division here?  I suspect because there is too much emotion associated with it, from family, friends, readers and favorite pastors, all violating the scriptures and trying to justify their actions.   

[robmac68]

You said it, it is emotion. 

 

My sister got divorced and then re-married. She has since asked God to forgive her for getting a divorce.  She is still married to the 2nd man.  She feels she is forgiven and is allowed to stay married and have relations with the 2nd man and be right with God.  I ask, is divorce a sin?  The prOBlem with divorce and remarraige is adultery.  How does one commit adultery?  Isn't it by either thinking of being intiment with someone or actually being intiment with someone?  So if sleeping with the 2nd man is adultery, wouldn't she have to ask forgiveness for adultery?  If she wanted forgiveness, wouldn't she need a repentative heart?  If she was never going to stop sleeping with her 2nd husband, how could she have a repentative heart and therefore, how could she have forgiveness and be right with God if she is going to freely commit the sin of adultery with no repentance? 

 

That would be like a homosexual asking God forgiveness for being a homosexual and then believing he was free to have sodomy because God forgave him from being homosexual. 

[swathdiver]

You said it, it is emotion. 

 

My sister got divorced and then re-married. She has since asked God to forgive her for getting a divorce.  She is still married to the 2nd man.  She feels she is forgiven and is allowed to stay married and have relations with the 2nd man and be right with God.  I ask, is divorce a sin?  

 

That would be like a homosexual asking God forgiveness for being a homosexual and then believing he was free to have sodomy because God forgave him from being homosexual. 

 

Your sister is fine.  It was wrong to divorce, wrong to remarry but she has repented for it.  The bible says no adulterers nor fornicators can inherit the Kingdom of God.  She cannot lose her salvation, she is forgiven.

 

The situation with the sodomite is different.  He's not sorrowful, he's making an excuse to continue in sin.

[robmac68]

Your sister is fine.  It was wrong to divorce, wrong to remarry but she has repented for it.  The bible says no adulterers nor fornicators can inherit the Kingdom of God.  She cannot lose her salvation, she is forgiven.

 

The situation with the sodomite is different.  He's not sorrowful, he's making an excuse to continue in sin.

Yes, I believe she is fine because she did get saved years ago while still a girl living at home and she can't lose salvation.  But are you saying that a born again Christian cannot backslide into an adulterous relationship and stay that way until death/rapture?  That is rhetorical only because I don't want to change this thread from remarriage to backsliding, but if she asked forgiveness for the divorce, how does that cover the sin of adultery? 

[282Mikado]

Yes, I believe she is fine because she did get saved years ago while still a girl living at home and she can't lose salvation.  But are you saying that a born again Christian cannot backslide into an adulterous relationship and stay that way until death/rapture?  That is rhetorical only because I don't want to change this thread from remarriage to backsliding, but if she asked forgiveness for the divorce, how does that cover the sin of adultery? 

 

Perhaps my repsonse in >post #72 in the Same-Sex Couples thread is appropriate here too.

[robmac68]

Perhaps my repsonse in >post #72 in the Same-Sex Couples thread is appropriate here too.

Yes, but Bathsheba was a widow so she was allowed to remarry so God did bless that relationship.  In fact Joseph, Jesus's earthly dad also came from that relathionship so it was defiantely blessed of God. 

 

Some believe that the act of adultery comes from getting re-married and that is the adultery and therfore a one-time thing that needs forgiven.  But where has God ever said a piece of paper from a judge is adultery?  I know of adultery from  1.thinking about being intimate with someone who isn't your spouse or  2.by actually being intimate with someone who isn't your spouse.  Therefore isn't adultery reaccuring each time you have relations with the 2nd spouse? 

[282Mikado]

Yes, but Bathsheba was a widow so she was allowed to remarry so God did bless that relationship.  In fact Joseph, Jesus's earthly dad also came from that relathionship so it was defiantely blessed of God. 

 

Some believe that the act of adultery comes from getting re-married and that is the adultery and therfore a one-time thing that needs forgiven.  But where has God ever said a piece of paper from a judge is adultery?  I know of adultery from  1.thinking about being intimate with someone who isn't your spouse or  2.by actually being intimate with someone who isn't your spouse.  Therefore isn't adultery reaccuring each time you have relations with the 2nd spouse? 

 

Uriah was dead, but David's other wives weren't, so he was certainly in adultery and polygamy and to use legal jargon, she was aiding, abetting, and an accesory to the crime.

 

The Bible infers that David was repentant. He certainly blessed David's marriage with Bathsheba so based on that I would have to say that if you are repentant it is not adultery every time you have relations with your second, or third, etc. (how many did David have?) wife.

 

I don't claim to understand it all but it appears by this account anyway, that God makes allowances for relations between men and women, just like he made an allowance for divorce. After all it was many years later that we are told David was a man after God's own heart: Acts 13:22.

[robmac68]

 

I don't claim to understand it all but it appears by this account anyway, that God makes allowances for relations between men and women, just like he made an allowance for divorce. After all it was many years later that we are told David was a man after God's own heart: Acts 13:22.

I definately dont claim to understand alot.  That said, I don't understand all the wives, concubines and incest in the Old Testament.  But in the NT it is clear that it is one man and one woman and any other relations outside that covenant is adultery.