Sin Unto Death

[GraceSaved]

What is the "sin unto death?"

 

1 John 5:16

 

When I use the cross referencing in my Bible, the scripture used to reference is Matthew 12:31 which says blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven.

 

What does that mean to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost? 

[TheSword]

Big topic and I wish I had time at the moment to fully explain my understanding of it (perhaps I'll get to later on). I disagree that the sin unto death (1 John 5:16) is the same as the unpardonable sin (Matt 12:31). The sin unto death is written to believers and about believers. I believe it is when a Christian comes to a point where they have continually sinned God puts them in the grave prematurely. The unpardonable sin, on the other hand, I believe refers to unbelievers who so defiantly resist the Holy Spirit and blaspheme Him (to speak irreverently or evil of, challenge the power of) to the point that He no longer convicts that person and he/she is no longer able to be saved.

[beameup]

This book fits into the theology of the Great Tribulation, along with the other Hebrew Epistles and the four Gospels. 

This doctrine is not applicable to the Gentile Epistles (all written by Paul) -- it is not found in the Gentile Epistles, Romans - Philemon.

During the Tribulation, the Holy Spirit does not "seal" believers as he does at present.  Therefore, during the Tribulation it is

quite possible to "lose your salvation".   A "sin unto death" would be like taking "the mark of the beast", for example.  During the Tribulation, the Holy Spirit will be very powerful in convicting of sin.  Every sin must be immediately confessed in order to maintain a "relationship" with the Holy Spirit (see 1 John 1:9, for example).

It's interesting to see how others will be dealt with during other Dispensations, as long as it doesn't cause confusion concerning your present unshakeable stand in this present Dispensation of Grace through Faith.

[Ukulelemike]

I agree-sin unto death may be such that one completely brings a bad name upon the Lord, maybe over time, to where its best just to being them home for some serious discussion.

 

When I think of this, I think if Sam Kinneson, the comedian.

 

Now, he may not have been saved, but he was a )pentecostal) preacher for some time before he fell to sin. I don't know the whole story, but its possible that he WAS saved, DID serve in some capacity, for some time before falling to sin, and becoming one of the most foul-mouthed comedians in recent history.

 

The reason I think this, is because he really seemed to have a grudge against Christianity in his humor, and one of the common attributes of seriously back-slidden believers is a tendency to really fan those flames of anger/discontent/discouragement, so as to ignore the call back from the Lord. The idea of "methinks thou dost protest too much". 

 

And then, at a point when he was married and seemed perhaps to be settling down, BAM! Killed on his way to his honeymoon.

 

Yes, he may have just been a reprOBate unsaved filthy-mouthed unbeliever, but for some reason I have always had this feeling that this was a backslidden believer who sinned unto death. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe not.

[Ukulelemike]

This book fits into the theology of the Great Tribulation, along with the other Hebrew Epistles and the four Gospels. 

This doctrine is not applicable to the Gentile Epistles (all written by Paul) -- it is not found in the Gentile Epistles, Romans - Philemon.

During the Tribulation, the Holy Spirit does not "seal" believers as he does at present.  Therefore, during the Tribulation it is

quite possible to "lose your salvation".  Then what exactly is occuring when the 144,000 are SEALED? Since its the Spirit's jOB to seal believers, and these are clearly believers being sealed, and the sealing is always unto redemption, why would we understand this to be anything different?

 

[beameup]

 

When something "sounds" similar, it is not necessarily "the same".  Perhaps consultation with a pastor would be of assistance?

 

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.  2 Co 1:22

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Eph 4:30

[Ukulelemike]

 

When something "sounds" similar, it is not necessarily "the same".  Perhaps consultation with a pastor would be of assistance?

 

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.  2 Co 1:22

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Eph 4:30

 

Thanks, I have consulted with myself, and with the Bible and find no difference. Why would the sealing of the 144,000 NOT be unto the day of redemption? The assumption of difference is on your part. I follow biblical precedence, while you follow an ultra-dispensationalist assumption.

[ASongOfDegrees]

Thanks, I have consulted with myself, and with the Bible and find no difference. Why would the sealing of the 144,000 NOT be unto the day of redemption? The assumption of difference is on your part. I follow biblical precedence, while you follow an ultra-dispensationalist assumption.

Actually, what he says is not "ultra-dispensationalist assumption" though I agree with you that the 144,000 will be sealed unto the day of their redemption.

 

The difference between their seal and ours is in this verse:

 

Rev. 7:3- Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

 

Whatever this seal is it's in contrast/compare to the seal those who receive the mark of the beast will have and it will be visible to the eye as is those who are sealed with the mark of the beast.

 

Our seal is in our hearts and is not visible.

[Ukulelemike]

Actually, what he says is not "ultra-dispensationalist assumption" though I agree with you that the 144,000 will be sealed unto the day of their redemption.

 

The difference between their seal and ours is in this verse:

 

Rev. 7:3- Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

 

Whatever this seal is it's in contrast/compare to the seal those who receive the mark of the beast will have and it will be visible to the eye as is those who are sealed with the mark of the beast.

 

Our seal is in our hearts and is not visible.

But being a SEAL, would it not be just as permanent in nature?

[ASongOfDegrees]

But being a SEAL, would it not be just as permanent in nature?

Yes, I think in the case of the 144,000 they are sealed for good but in the case of everyone else during the tribulation I don't believe this is the case. From what I see in Revelation ANYONE who takes the mark of the beast is damned to hell without any chance of being saved (Hebrews 6:4-8 would be referring to this. Remember, Hebrews is written to Jews in "the last days"- Hebrews 1:2). The argument is whether the rest of the saints (not the 144,000 but the Gentiles saints and the Jews who flee to the wilderness-Rev/ 12:6) would ever take the mark. Some say a true saint would never take the mark but I believe that it's possible based on verses like John 6:66 (yes, 666!). The only saints sealed are the 144,000. It's a different seal from ours but a seal nontheless.

[GraceSaved]

Big topic and I wish I had time at the moment to fully explain my understanding of it (perhaps I'll get to later on). I disagree that the sin unto death (1 John 5:16) is the same as the unpardonable sin (Matt 12:31). The sin unto death is written to believers and about believers. I believe it is when a Christian comes to a point where they have continually sinned God puts them in the grave prematurely. The unpardonable sin, on the other hand, I believe refers to unbelievers who so defiantly resist the Holy Spirit and blaspheme Him (to speak irreverently or evil of, challenge the power of) to the point that He no longer convicts that person and he/she is no longer able to be saved.

Thanks for answering.  I get your explanation, but now I am a little confused at my Bible's cross-referencing if the "sin unto death" and the "sin that is not forgiven" are not the same.

[GraceSaved]

This book fits into the theology of the Great Tribulation, along with the other Hebrew Epistles and the four Gospels. 

This doctrine is not applicable to the Gentile Epistles (all written by Paul) -- it is not found in the Gentile Epistles, Romans - Philemon.

During the Tribulation, the Holy Spirit does not "seal" believers as he does at present.  Therefore, during the Tribulation it is

quite possible to "lose your salvation".   A "sin unto death" would be like taking "the mark of the beast", for example.  During the Tribulation, the Holy Spirit will be very powerful in convicting of sin.  Every sin must be immediately confessed in order to maintain a "relationship" with the Holy Spirit (see 1 John 1:9, for example).

It's interesting to see how others will be dealt with during other Dispensations, as long as it doesn't cause confusion concerning your present unshakeable stand in this present Dispensation of Grace through Faith.

Thanks for answering.  So you are saying the "sin unto death" can only be done during the tribulation if one takes the mark of the beast? 

[GraceSaved]

I agree-sin unto death may be such that one completely brings a bad name upon the Lord, maybe over time, to where its best just to being them home for some serious discussion.

 

When I think of this, I think if Sam Kinneson, the comedian.

 

Now, he may not have been saved, but he was a )pentecostal) preacher for some time before he fell to sin. I don't know the whole story, but its possible that he WAS saved, DID serve in some capacity, for some time before falling to sin, and becoming one of the most foul-mouthed comedians in recent history.

 

The reason I think this, is because he really seemed to have a grudge against Christianity in his humor, and one of the common attributes of seriously back-slidden believers is a tendency to really fan those flames of anger/discontent/discouragement, so as to ignore the call back from the Lord. The idea of "methinks thou dost protest too much". 

 

And then, at a point when he was married and seemed perhaps to be settling down, BAM! Killed on his way to his honeymoon.

 

Yes, he may have just been a reprOBate unsaved filthy-mouthed unbeliever, but for some reason I have always had this feeling that this was a backslidden believer who sinned unto death. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe not.  I remember the story on his death when it happened.  Tragic.  I also remember that witnesses reported at the accident scene it appeared that he was having a conversation saying he didn't want to die and then he said "okay."

[EKSmith]

Blasphemy against the Holly Spirit - is deliberate rejection of Christ and His salvation, it is the ultimate sin that by its very nature puts a man beyond the opportunity of salvation.

The Holly Spirit brings the offer of salvation to the heart of man , to reject him is to blaspheme God.( Matthew 12:31 Luke 12:10)

 

Sins against the Holly Spirit - since the Holly Spirit is a person He may be sinned against , since He is also God it is an extremely serious matter to be guilty of sinning against Him. ( Matthew 12:32)

some of these sins are Lying or tempting , despising, resisting or striving with, vexing or grieving.and quenching.the Holly Spirit.

 

Because of the severity with which Jesus describes blasphemy against the Holly Spirit , some people may fear that they have committed the unpardonable sin. one of the characteristics of such sin is that the Holly Spirit ceases to convict sin in ones life , so the fact that someone may be concerned about a particular sin indicates he is not beyond grace. they should immediately repent of that sin to restore their fellowship with God.

 

Sin unto death - Habitual disOBedience , deliberate and persistent rebellion against God , apostasy from biblical truth or failure to trust OBediently in Jesus. ( 1 John 5:16)

Sin Not unto death - unlike sin unto death '' these are sins that every christian finds himself subject to and struggle against and have forgiveness and reconciliation with God. ( 1 John 5:17 )

 

Hope this helps GraceSaved 

God Bless

[Covenanter]

Bible egs
the Jewish leaders of Jesus time - see also Acts 7, Heb 6 & 10
Ananias & Sapphira
Alexander
Www