What Do You Think The "kingdom Of God" Is?

[Invicta]

Yes but the unbelieving Jews had got it wrong.  Even the apostles got it wrong when they asked the question on Mt Olivet.  After the ascension, they never got it wrong again. 

Joh 18:36  Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

[Covenanter]

In some respects, there are two kingdoms.  One will last for 1,000 years on earth after Jesus returns (Millennium);

and the other is eternal, following the creation of a new earth and new heaven wherein dwells eternal righteousness.

 

The "Kingdom of Heaven" is where the Father and Son and all his angels dwell (Third Heaven), and this Kingdom will be

brought to the earth when Jesus returns and rules from David's throne in Jerusalem.

 

So it could be argued that the "Kingdom of God" is the eternal kingdom following the re-creation of the heavens/earth.

 

The Israelites (Jews) clearly understood this part of his preaching.  They wanted "Messiah" to return their nation to its former glory.

Have you any Scriptures to support these statements ?

 

Is the Kingdom John & Jesus & the disciples preached as being at hand still future ??? 

 

Was the Kingdom 2000+ years in the distant future when Jesus announced it ???

[ASongOfDegrees]

As far as I see there are two aspects of God's kingdom, one physical and one spiritual, and only the spiritual aspect applies to today. Our

commission is to get people into the kingdom of God via the new birth and that's it. It's not to bring in the kingdom on earth since our kingdom is not from hence. Still, the kingdom goes beyond this and there is still a future aspect that has to be fulfilled in the literal, physical, Abrahamic, Davidic, kingdom of heaven that will be located here on earth with it's capital at Jerusalem. I believe this is the part of the kingdom the Matthew focused on since his gospel is primarily directed at the Jews. So the term "kingdom of heaven" is more exclusive to the literal, physical kingdom of God. That being said one will not enter into the physical kingdom of God unless he is born again (John 3:16) and is spiritually translated into the kingdom of God's dear Son (Col. 1:13). 

 

If you ram all the teachings on the kingdom into one concept like "the church is the kingdom" you will end up with a State Church that is 

trying to build the physical kingdom of heaven on earth through stealing the covenants,promises, laws and blessings from Israel and applying them to the church, ruling over the kings of the earth, creating wars, burning witches and heretics, taxes, priesthood, "Vicar of Christ" etc, etc. like the Papists and Puritans have attempted to do. 

 

As far as the "mysteries of the kingdom" like mentioned in Matthew 13 that is a little harder to grasp, IMO, because you have the unsaved and false doctrine involved and we know that neither are in the kingdom of God. Also. these things are presently taking place on earth. You even have people being plucked out of the kingdom of heaven and being tossed into hell (Matt. 12:41,42). This CANNOT have application to the spiritual kingdom of God because you cannot get into that unless you are born again.

[beameup]

Have you any Scriptures to support these statements ?

 

Is the Kingdom John & Jesus & the disciples preached as being at hand still future ??? 

 

Was the Kingdom 2000+ years in the distant future when Jesus announced it ???

See, herein lies the prOBlem of understanding the words of Jesus.  Did Jesus have "self imposed"

limitations on what he knew when he was here "in the flesh"?  If he had been "received" by the nation

Israel, then the Kingdom would have started immediately.  As it turned out, they  did not.... YET.

 

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you

I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.  John 14:10

Clearly, Jesus did not "speak his own mind".  It could easily be interpolated that he did not "know everything" while here on earth.

 

Psalm 90:4

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

From God's perspective, his plans are designed to yield the greatest harvest of souls... no matter how long it takes.

[Genevanpreacher]

 

See, herein lies the prOBlem of understanding the words of Jesus.  Did Jesus have "self imposed"

limitations on what he knew when he was here "in the flesh"?  If he had been "received" by the nation

Israel, then the Kingdom would have started immediately.  As it turned out, they  did not.... YET.

 

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you

I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.  John 14:10

Clearly, Jesus did not "speak his own mind".  It could easily be interpolated that he did not "know everything" while here on earth.

 

Psalm 90:4

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

From God's perspective, his plans are designed to yield the greatest harvest of souls... no matter how long it takes.

 

 

[ " If he had been "received" by the nation

Israel, then the Kingdom would have started immediately.  As it turned out, they  did not.... YET."]

 

Just curious, where is this stated in the scriptures? His death purchased our salvation, AND Israel's did it not? Is it not true that there is no difference between the Jew and Gentile?

 

["Clearly, Jesus did not "speak his own mind".  It could easily be interpolated that he did not "know everything" while here on earth."]

 

Huh? We were talking about the mind of Christ as he is eternally known not just in his 'physical' time here.

[Dr James Ach]

Common sense should tell a person that heaven and God are not the same. Thus the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are not the same thing. The few instances where the terms are supposedly "interchangeable" are merely Christ mentioning a time when BOTH will be present at the same time after the tribulation.

 

John Howe has posted a good short video on this which I will post because it gets old typing the same thing to the same Calvinist heretics all the time

 

[Covenanter]

Common sense should tell a person that heaven and God are not the same. Thus the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are not the same thing. The few instances where the terms are supposedly "interchangeable" are merely Christ mentioning a time when BOTH will be present at the same time after the tribulation.

 

John Howe has posted a good short video on this which I will post because it gets old typing the same thing to the same Calvinist heretics all the time

 

 

OTOH a simple reading of Scripture will tell us that the Kingdom of God & the Kingdom of heaven ARE the same, & used inerchangeably. Sorry about your  common sense. Common sense is not enough - you the spiritual understanding.

 

And, of course the great tribulation took place in the run up to the destruction.

[Covenanter]

 

See, herein lies the prOBlem of understanding the words of Jesus.  Did Jesus have "self imposed"

limitations on what he knew when he was here "in the flesh"?  If he had been "received" by the nation

Israel, then the Kingdom would have started immediately.  As it turned out, they  did not.... YET.

 

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you

I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.  John 14:10

Clearly, Jesus did not "speak his own mind".  It could easily be interpolated that he did not "know everything" while here on earth.

 

Psalm 90:4

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

2 Peter 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

From God's perspective, his plans are designed to yield the greatest harvest of souls... no matter how long it takes.

 

Sorry but I read the words of Jesus - he made it very clear that his rejection & crucifixion were according to the Scriptures. Jesus' rebuke is for you also:

Luke 24:²⁵ Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: ²⁶ ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? ²⁷ And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

[Genevanpreacher]

First off, I do not pay much attention to Dr. Ach. He is very abusive for a 'man of God'.

As for this video, the man OBviously follows mans teachings over what Jesus Christ himself actually said. 

Like the teachings that the Gospel writers were writing to specific groups. That exists no where in the scriptures. The Gospels were written to all who were alive at the time. As to the different viewpoints, that is subject to mans view, not the authors themselves. God used these men for the purpose of extracting the truth out of the common talk about Jesus and who he claimed to be, to give us a foundation and an anchor to hold onto as facts.

The statement that the kingdom of God, and the kingdom of heaven, are two different 'things' going on at the same time?

Come on Dr., the stress is the kingdom, not where or who, but what.

Yes God is not heaven, and heaven is not God, but where is God? And what makes heaven what it is?

 

God.

 

It is the time when God and heaven are our eternal heaven, which includes this life. For once we are born again we become citizens of the kingdom, for he is our King, where he resides and where we look to go for all eternity, including when heaven comes to earth and is.

 

And, who, pray tell, is going to own the kingdom of heaven?

 

God.

 

So what difference does it make for some 'preacher' to say they are two different things, compared to what God himself, in human form, has said?

 

God is right. Not this fellow.

 

As for his John 3 section? Not bad, but listen, the end result of one being born again means that he is entered into the kingdom now (spiritual), and will be later (physical).

So? What's the difference?

And when you see the physical change in the comparison of the winds, and the rebirth, does that not make it a 'physical' thing to the convert also? Hence making the kingdom a physical thing to the one who converteth his ways?

 

I stopped at 11:17. Couldn't take the info anymore.

 

This fellow is deluded into believing lies.

 

Sorry for the bluntness.

 

And... I refuse to get involved with any discussion with Dr. Ach. It's his way or the highway. So do not bother trying to egg me on to any 'arguing' with you Sir.

[beameup]

Sorry but I read the words of Jesus - he made it very clear that his rejection & crucifixion were according to the Scriptures. Jesus' rebuke is for you also:

Luke 24:²⁵ Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: ²⁶ ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? ²⁷ And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Sorry, but perhaps I should have used another word instead of "immediately".  Perhaps soon would have been better suited.  English has it's limitations.  I do not quickly throw around the words "heretic" and "rebuke" as I consider it ungodly to do so against other Christians.   

I know from whence that particular "spirit" comes.

 

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.  Acts 1:7

 

The "Kingdom" has never been established on the earth.

[beameup]

["Clearly, Jesus did not "speak his own mind".  It could easily be interpolated that he did not "know everything" while here on earth."]

 

Huh? We were talking about the mind of Christ as he is eternally known not just in his 'physical' time here.

 

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you  

I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.  John 14:10

 

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Acts 1:6-7

 

Sometimes it is necessary to ask the Holy Spirit to open up your understanding and "connect the dots",

to better understand Jesus while he was on the earth; as there is not one particular verse that explains

all the complexities of his "mission", precisely and succinctly.  Of course, understanding comes with

being a spiritual Christian as opposed to a non-spiritual self-centered "Carnal" Christian.

[ASongOfDegrees]

OTOH a simple reading of Scripture will tell us that the Kingdom of God & the Kingdom of heaven ARE the same, & used inerchangeably. Sorry about your  common sense. Common sense is not enough - you the spiritual understanding.

 

And, of course the great tribulation took place in the run up to the destruction.

So someone can be plucked out of the kingdom of God (the one we are born again into) and cast into hell?

 

Why do people ignore these verses? 

 

Matthew 13:24,29,30

 

[24] Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

[29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 

Matthew 13:47-50

 

[47] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
[48] Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
[49] So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
[50] And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

 

And please don't tell me this took place at 70 AD when it says "at the end of the world".

[Genevanpreacher]

 

["Clearly, Jesus did not "speak his own mind".  It could easily be interpolated that he did not "know everything" while here on earth."]

 

Huh? We were talking about the mind of Christ as he is eternally known not just in his 'physical' time here.

 

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you  

I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.  John 14:10

 

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Acts 1:6-7

 

Sometimes it is necessary to ask the Holy Spirit to open up your understanding and "connect the dots",

to better understand Jesus while he was on the earth; as there is not one particular verse that explains

all the complexities of his "mission", precisely and succinctly.  Of course, understanding comes with

being a spiritual Christian as opposed to a non-spiritual self-centered "Carnal" Christian.

 

 

Is this in response to my question on verses telling that if the Jews accepted Christ as THE Messiah that the kingdom would've started then?

 

And, what? There is such a thing as this? - "a non-spiritual self-centered "Carnal" Christian."

[Dr James Ach]

So someone can be plucked out of the kingdom of God (the one we are born again into) and cast into hell?

 

Why do people ignore these verses? 

 

Matthew 13:24,29,30

 

[24] Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

[29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 

Matthew 13:47-50

 

[47] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
[48] Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
[49] So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
[50] And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

 

And please don't tell me this took place at 70 AD when it says "at the end of the world".

According to Covenanter, the tribulation already took place in AD 70. The antichrist (not just "many" antichrists as described in 1 John, but THE antichrist) had already shown up and nOBody on earth could buy, sell, or trade without his mark and were beheaded without it. Of course, NOBody knows who this antichrist was that implemented this, or what that mark was, or any historical evidence that there was a world-wide moratorium on food and goods without a mark, but hey, according to Covenanter and every other HERETIC that follows this logic, it happened!!

 

144,000 Jews were sealed in AD 70 too! Even though Paul had officially written them off way back in AD 60, some how 144,000 Jews were exclusively sealed although history doesn't tell us who they were, but according to the Preterists and most Calvinists, it happened!

 

The Mount of Olives split in two (Zech 14:2-4). Of course, at some point in history, the mount magically reassembled itself and all the plates realigned back to their original physical locations AND NOBODY NOTICED!! But according to Covenanter and every other Calvinist and Covenant theology heretic, it happened in AD 70!!

 

Daniel's 70th week was literally 483 years from the decree of Ezra to the time of Christ, but the last 7 years were NOT literal 7 years, but actually a period of 40 years that stretched out from Christ's resurrection to AD 70, according to Preterists and Calvinist heretics.

 

All tears have been wiped away and there is no more death right now since we are now in the "kingdom" and Jesus is reigning through His "royal priesthood" on earth!! And although Revelation was fulfilled in AD 70, somehow Satan managed to be bound for a thousand years before Revelation was fulfilled in AD 70! Must have been some "out of time" binding, and then God snuck him back in time. If you listen to Preterists, Covenant theology and most amillennial Calvinists, this is the logic you have to listen to.

 

There are 100 other things I could list ( and already HAVE listed them several times on this thread and they are ALWAYS ignored) about the tribulation supposedly being fulfilled in AD 70, but then you get to witness the allegorical Scripture twisting from Covenanter, Invicta, and apparently "Genevanpreacher" joining in with their Calvinist, Preterist, Covenant Theology (really Roman Catholic Dominionism) heresy.

[Genevanpreacher]

According to Covenanter, the tribulation already took place in AD 70. The antichrist (not just "many" antichrists as described in 1 John, but THE antichrist) had already shown up and nOBody on earth could buy, sell, or trade without his mark and were beheaded without it. Of course, NOBody knows who this antichrist was that implemented this, or what that mark was, or any historical evidence that there was a world-wide moratorium on food and goods without a mark, but hey, according to Covenanter and every other HERETIC that follows this logic, it happened!!

 

144,000 Jews were sealed in AD 70 too! Even though Paul had officially written them off way back in AD 60, some how 144,000 Jews were exclusively sealed although history doesn't tell us who they were, but according to the Preterists and most Calvinists, it happened!

 

The Mount of Olives split in two (Zech 14:2-4). Of course, at some point in history, the mount magically reassembled itself and all the plates realigned back to their original physical locations AND NOBODY NOTICED!! But according to Covenanter and every other Calvinist and Covenant theology heretic, it happened in AD 70!!

 

Daniel's 70th week was literally 483 years from the decree of Ezra to the time of Christ, but the last 7 years were NOT literal 7 years, but actually a period of 40 years that stretched out from Christ's resurrection to AD 70, according to Preterists and Calvinist heretics.

 

All tears have been wiped away and there is no more death right now since we are now in the "kingdom" and Jesus is reigning through His "royal priesthood" on earth!! And although Revelation was fulfilled in AD 70, somehow Satan managed to be bound for a thousand years before Revelation was fulfilled in AD 70! Must have been some "out of time" binding, and then God snuck him back in time. If you listen to Preterists, Covenant theology and most amillennial Calvinists, this is the logic you have to listen to.

 

There are 100 other things I could list ( and already HAVE listed them several times on this thread and they are ALWAYS ignored) about the tribulation supposedly being fulfilled in AD 70, but then you get to witness the allegorical Scripture twisting from Covenanter, Invicta, and apparently "Genevanpreacher" joining in with their Calvinist, Preterist, Covenant Theology (really Roman Catholic Dominionism) heresy.

 

I am honored to be mentioned among true seekers of the truth. I noticed, your name is not listed.

If you would read their posts ,as I assume you did not, you would not have called us what you did. And you read way too much into what was said.