Can God Use A Man That Drinks Wine?

[Arbo]

 

 

I did not say, "doesn't even take drinking."  Please do not add as my quote words that are not mine.  Thank you.

[John81]

If the Gospel is clearly presented and one accepts Christ as their Saviour and Lord, they are saved; eternally.

 

It doesn't matter if some years later you find out the one who presented the Gospel to you happens to believe Jesus had hair to his waist or may have had a sip of fermented wine or such.

 

That's NOT believing in another Jesus. It might be believing some wrong things regarding Jesus, but if they believe Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to heaven, then they believe in the true Jesus.

 

"Another Jesus" is one such as the Muslims or Mormons put forth; a "Jesus" that isn't the only way to right standing with God, a "Jesus" that isn't the only begotten Son of God. That's "another Jesus", a false Jesus, that leads one away from God and salvation.

 

Prior to salvation no one can rightly know Jesus or truly understand the Word of God. It's after salvation that one is called to read and study the Word, to pray and assemble with other believers, to hear the preaching of the Word, so they can learn more of the Lord and draw closer to the Lord.

 

If one is saved and lives for many years afterword it's likely their understanding, views and beliefs regarding Jesus and the Word will change. There will be points where a believer holds to some wrong views, perhaps even some wrong views regarding Jesus (not with regards to Him being the Son of God and only Saviour) but that doesn't make them unsaved or mean they were never saved, it means they have a misunderstanding, they haven't yet learned better, the Lord hasn't chose to deal with them in this area yet, they are mistaken. That's part of the process of growing in Christ.

[candlelight]

 John!

[Standing Firm In Christ]

2 Corinthians 11:4 (KJV)
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

The Man in South America who claimed to be Jesus said he had raised from the dead and is the Son of God. Using your logic, the group who follows that man, believing Jesus is the Son of God who died and rose again must be saved.

Give me a break. If a false christ is presented to me, and I believe he died and rose again, I believe in vain.

[John81]

Again, you are showing forth a wrong understanding of what "a different Jesus" is. For some reason you are confusing a "different Jesus", which is a "Jesus" that isn't the only begotten Son of God, the only Saviour; with a misunderstanding or even ignorance of some other aspect regarding Jesus. The two are not the same.

 

If one believes Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and their only means of salvation and they accept Him as their Lord and Saviour they are forever saved.

 

If one had to believe perfectly on every other aspect of Jesus one may, or may not, be able to determine through Scripture before they could be saved, that would require works and thus be a works based salvation.

[DaveW]

Again, you are showing forth a wrong understanding of what "a different Jesus" is. For some reason you are confusing a "different Jesus", which is a "Jesus" that isn't the only begotten Son of God, the only Saviour; with a misunderstanding or even ignorance of some other aspect regarding Jesus. The two are not the same.

If one believes Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and their only means of salvation and they accept Him as their Lord and Saviour they are forever saved.

If one had to believe perfectly on every other aspect of Jesus one may, or may not, be able to determine through Scripture before they could be saved, that would require works and thus be a works based salvation.

;)

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Again, you are showing forth a wrong understanding of what "a different Jesus" is. For some reason you are confusing a "different Jesus", which is a "Jesus" that isn't the only begotten Son of God, the only Saviour; with a misunderstanding or even ignorance of some other aspect regarding Jesus. The two are not the same.

 

If one believes Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and their only means of salvation and they accept Him as their Lord and Saviour they are forever saved.

 

If one had to believe perfectly on every other aspect of Jesus one may, or may not, be able to determine through Scripture before they could be saved, that would require works and thus be a works based salvation.

NO, I am not showing a wrong understanding at all.

Scripture says we must believe in Christ. It is important that we believe in the right Christ...

If I were unsaved, and I knew you and you came to me witnessing of Christ, telling me that he died, was buried and rose again and it was him you served.  You have not necessarily witnessed to me the true Christ. 

Jesus warned His Disciples/Apostles of false christs.  He said if they said "His is here." Believe them not. 

Suppose, just suppose, that you believed that Jesus is the Christ, but you also believed the Catholic lie that he was born to a woman who remained a perpetual virgin.  Is the Christ you present to me going to be the Christ who had brothers and sisters? NO!  Rather, it will be the christ who was an only child and whose mother remained a virgin.

You would pointed me to a false christ... your christ.

If you were looking for a cup of coffee, and someone handed you a ham sandwich saying here's your coffee, have they given you coffee?  Of course not. 

So why would you think one can point another to a false christ and that person be saved?

SMH

[DaveW]

Maybe you, like certain others here, should read what people actually write, instead of what you think they are saying.

[John81]

Scripture is clear with regards to salvation. If one believes in the biblical means of salvation they can be born again.

 

There are not tests to pass prior to that. One doesn't have to prove they have studied the Scriptures to come to a perfect understanding of all things before they can be saved.

 

If two people know who I am, but neither have seen me for some time, and one says they think I have short hair and the other thinks my hair is longer, the one who is wrong isn't believing in "another John", they are simply mistaken.

 

The same with Jesus. If one believes Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God come in the flesh to pay for our sins and we believe we are saved. That's biblical salvation.

 

Most folks have come to salvation in Christ knowing little more than that they believe He is the Son of God and the only way to be reconciled with God. This occurred because the Holy Ghost convicted them when they heard the Gospel and they positively responded.

 

It doesn't matter if someone, in their minds eye, envisions Jesus being blue eyed with blond hair to his shoulders; brown eyed with hair past his shoulders; or with green eyes and reddish hair cut short. If they hear the Gospel and surrender to the prodding of the Holy Ghost, they are saved.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

If two people know who I am, but neither have seen me for some time, and one says they think I have short hair and the other thinks my hair is longer, the one who is wrong isn't believing in "another John", they are simply mistaken.

 

But if someone points to a person named George, and says, "That's John over there", have they pointed to you?

[John81]

That's a totally different situation and you avoid what Scripture teaches regarding salvation.

 

Whether you realize it or not, once again you are adding works to salvation.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Not even close. jesus said, He tat believeth in me...

If I told people that Jesus was a German clockmaker who was also the Son of God who died and rose again, would I be pointing to the right Jesus?

One cannot pick and choose which Jesus they want to serve and present to others. It must be the True Jesus.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

By insisting we bpresent the right Christ or a person cannot be saved is adding works to Salvation? Wow!

[John81]

Again, you are changing the topic.

 

You said that if someone is presented the biblical Gospel, they believe and receive Christ; but later learn that the one who presented the Gospel to them believes Jesus might have drank wine, that means they are unsaved. That's totally unbiblical.

 

If a person hears the biblical Gospel and accept it, they are born again. They believed in the biblical Christ presented to them. If the one who shared the Gospel with them happens to hold some wrong beliefs that were shared, that doesn't negate the clear presentation of the Gospel and the one who was saved.

 

By insisting that one must not only know every detail about Christ but also know that whoever presents the Gospel to them agrees with your view of all other things relating to Christ before they can be saved, you are adding a precondition, which is a work, to the means of salvation.

[Arbo]

I wonder if SFIC would be willing to list in detail what he believes are the required beliefs about Christ that are necessary for salvation.