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Can God Use A Man That Drinks Wine?


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

SFIC,

 

According to your unbiblical position, that means Edwards, Whitefield, Wesley, Spurgeon and a host of other preachers and evangelists were not saved and nobody got saved through their preaching.

 

That, in turn, means that all those who thought they were saved through their preaching and then shared the Gospel didn't see anyone saved either.

 

This means, hundreds of thousands, perhaps into the millions, of folks who were saved through their preaching and the preaching and witnessing of those saved through their preaching, and onward, were not actually saved.

 

All of this because, even though they preached the biblical Gospel and hundreds of thousands or more believed and accepted Christ, none of them could be saved because they all held to beliefs regarding Christ that you disagree with.

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I am in constant awe at Christians who have arrived spiritually to the point where they can read other people's hearts and know whether or not they are saved based on a twisted version of a few words

If you take a bowl out of the cabinet and it is dirty, can you use it for ice cream. Why yes you can! However if your standard is cleanliness, it doesn't matter that you can use it, you will not use i

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If they preached a false christ and people did not believe anything but their preaching, then they would have led thousands upon thousands to hell.

My position is not unbiblical.  I teach people to point to the true Christ, not one who drank alcohol, not one who gave alcohol to man.  Not one who has a perpetual virgin for a mother, etc..

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What does Scripture say one must believe about Jesus in order to be saved?

 

It's been posted here before and it has nothing to do with what a person thinks about alcohol or if they have even considered the alcohol question.

 

It's clear what all those men preached and it's clear hundreds of thousands were born again through their preaching, and each of them held to views you disagree with.

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Galatians 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

What is the Gospel?

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Notice Paul said "according to the Scriptures.  Well, which Jesus died for our sins according to the Scriptures, was buried and rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.

Was it a Jesus that made alcoholic wine and gave it to man?  Not according to the Scriptures.
Was it a Jesus that drank alcohol?  Not according to Scriptures.
Was it a Jesus who had no siblihngs and whose mother remained a perpetual virgin?  Again, not according to Scriptures.
A Jesus whose Father was a black woman?  Not according to Scriptures.

We must preach and teach the Christ according to the Scriptures or we are preaching and teaching a false gospel.... even if we do attach the death, burial and resurrection to a false christ... it is still a false christ and a false gospel.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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SFIC, you just keep going around in circles, avoiding what others here put forth.

 

When you, or any of us here, heard the Gospel and responded, did the Gospel presenter go into a litany of viewpoints on alcohol, hair length, dress styles, points about the mother of Jesus, or his earthly dad, or his siblings, or politics, pollution, cigars, health considerations, proper modes of prayer or a host of other matters?

 

The Apostle Paul dealt with a lot of problems in some of the early churches. Many in the churches held to wrong views, including views regarding Jesus and a variety of matters. Yet Paul didn't say they were unsaved, that their wrong views meant they were believing in "another Jesus". No, instead Paul acknowledged them as his brothers/sisters in Christ and sought to teach them correctly about those matters. They didn't need to get saved, they were already saved, but they did need discipleship, they needed to learn and grow in the Word and in Christ.

 

We see Christ was preached, and Him crucified. This lead to countless souls born again in Christ. After they were born again, Paul (or others appointed for such) taught them more, corrected false views, built them up in Christ and helped them to become rooted and grounded in the Word.

 

That's the biblical model.

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SFIC,
 
According to your unbiblical position, that means Edwards, Whitefield, Wesley, Spurgeon and a host of other preachers and evangelists were not saved and nobody got saved through their preaching.
 
That, in turn, means that all those who thought they were saved through their preaching and then shared the Gospel didn't see anyone saved either.
 
This means, hundreds of thousands, perhaps into the millions, of folks who were saved through their preaching and the preaching and witnessing of those saved through their preaching, and onward, were not actually saved.
 
All of this because, even though they preached the biblical Gospel and hundreds of thousands or more believed and accepted Christ, none of them could be saved because they all held to beliefs regarding Christ that you disagree with.


Well said.
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sigh

 

I have been sighing through most of the thread, HC.  I agree with John, though.  That is what the Bible says.  If it weren't for Arbo's funny posts, I would be calling my MIL or my pastor's wife for some sanity.   :coverlaugh:  

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But if someone points to a person named George, and says, "That's John over there", have they pointed to you?

I have seen no person on this thread say such a thing as that.  I also don't think anyone on this thread would argue with that.  You say one thing and argue with those that say the same thing.  You seem to for some reason twist things out of the original shape into something totally unrecognizable.  There could be many reasons for this but I think there is no way possible to resolve this discussion in this format. :puzzled3::(

 

God bless,

Larry

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SFIC, you just keep going around in circles, avoiding what others here put forth.

When you, or any of us here, heard the Gospel and responded, did the Gospel presenter go into a litany of viewpoints on alcohol, hair length, dress styles, points about the mother of Jesus, or his earthly dad, or his siblings, or politics, pollution, cigars, health considerations, proper modes of prayer or a host of other matters?

The Apostle Paul dealt with a lot of problems in some of the early churches. Many in the churches held to wrong views, including views regarding Jesus and a variety of matters. Yet Paul didn't say they were unsaved, that their wrong views meant they were believing in "another Jesus". No, instead Paul acknowledged them as his brothers/sisters in Christ and sought to teach them correctly about those matters. They didn't need to get saved, they were already saved, but they did need discipleship, they needed to learn and grow in the Word and in Christ.

We see Christ was preached, and Him crucified. This lead to countless souls born again in Christ. After they were born again, Paul (or others appointed for such) taught them more, corrected false views, built them up in Christ and helped them to become rooted and grounded in the Word.

That's the biblical model.

no, but then again, the man who led me to Christ had a relationship with Him and was therefore presenting the true Christ.

One cannot introduce Christ to another if that one does not know Christ himself. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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Not even close. jesus said, He tat believeth in me...

If I told people that Jesus was a German clockmaker who was also the Son of God who died and rose again, would I be pointing to the right Jesus?

One cannot pick and choose which Jesus they want to serve and present to others. It must be the True Jesus.

 

 

 

Follow me and I will make you fisher of men...

 

538px-Elgin_watchmaker.jpg

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SFIC, There is really little else to say since you refuse to accept that there is a difference between someone holding a wrong viewpoint or mistaken viewpoint, and someone who preaches a Christ that is not sufficient for salvation.

 

Paul accepted those in the church who held to wrong viewpoints, even to the point of thinking Jesus was okay with a man sleeping with his stepmother, as saved but in need of correction and instruction.

 

When it comes to salvation there is the biblical Jesus, which is the only begotten Son of God, who is all sufficient to redeem the lost and reconcile them with God. Romans 10:9 and 10 is clear as to the simplicity required to be saved (notice, no checklist of various other matters that one must first meet). If that Jesus is preached and believed upon, souls are saved. Any other issues are matters for after salvation.

 

"Another Jesus" is one that isn't the only begotten Son of God, come in the flesh to save the lost through Himself alone. "Another Jesus" is one that requires some work, or checklist of works in order to be right with God; or perhaps in addition to some works, maybe even another helper.

 

Those are the only two "Jesus'". There is not a "my Jesus, your Jesus, his Jesus, her Jesus."

 

All saved people are subject to hold one or more wrong views regarding Jesus, but if they are surrendered to Him the Holy Ghost will eventually help correct these errors; not declare them unsaved. Scripture doesn't indicate anywhere that the saved have a perfect understanding of all things concerning Jesus before their salvation or upon their salvation.

 

Scripture does say all saved people need to learn and grow in the Word and in Christ.

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Rejoice in the Lord!!! And again I say rejoice!

 

Praise God His mercies are new every morning!

 

Praise God at all times and pray without ceasing!

 

(written before post #199 was posted, so this is NOT in reference to that post...or #200 which just showed up...I must be posting way to slow!)

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Rejoice in the Lord!!! And again I say rejoice!

 

Praise God His mercies are new every morning!

 

Praise God at all times and pray without ceasing!

 

(written before post #199 was posted, so this is NOT in reference to that post...or #200 which just showed up...I must be posting way to slow!)

 

Amen

 

(And 18.5 posts per day posting rate too slow? Shurely shome mishtake.)

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I know what it means, but what I do not understand is your definition of a double curse and how it differs from a standard curse.

 

Each verse referred to a curse on booze, two verses, two curses, double curse on booze.

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Each verse referred to a curse on booze, two verses, two curses, double curse on booze.

 

Basing a quasi-doctrine on the number of verses seemingly supporting one's opinion is odd.  I wouldn't question your sincerity, but I wonder about about your double curse reasoning.

Edited by Arbo
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