Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Makes absolutely no sense that God would judge the Earth for Lucifer's fall in Heaven. Why not just believe the Word of God. God created the Earth. It existed in a state of emptiness. He subsequently created plants, animals and man to live on the Earth. Not really hard to comprehend when one reads the Bible and believes it. God did judge the Earth, but He judged it because of man's fall... not satan's. Man was created from the Earth. Satan wasn't. Edited February 20, 2014 by Standing Firm In Christ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVBibleBeliever Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:3 actually I said he created it from himself. But that was refuted with God is spirit. I still stand by that all material come from God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 Do you realize that with this question you're putting limits on the power of God? You're essentially trying to say that God had to have material to create from and that He couldn't have called material into existence by His very word (which heartstrings pointed out). It makes material eternal and pre-existent with God which makes God either equal or subordinate to said material rather than sovereign over all. This is bordering on Gnosticism and/or earth-worship now.... I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, just taking this question to its logical conclusion. actually I said he created it from himself. But that was refuted with God is spirit. I still stand by that all material come from God. Perhaps the above response was based on a misunderstanding of what you were trying to say. However, I find this position equally objectionable. If all material comes from God, wouldn't that mean that God is in everything? If God is in everything doesn't that mean everything and everyone has a "spark of the divine"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ThePilgrim Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 I am not a student of language so I ask you guys for wisdom on this matter. What does ex nihilo mean? Does it mean "out of nothing". If so what is "nothing". Does nothing mean "lack of anything"? If so, why are we discussing what God made something out of? God bless, Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVBibleBeliever Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Perhaps the above response was based on a misunderstanding of what you were trying to say. However, I find this position equally objectionable. If all material comes from God, wouldn't that mean that God is in everything? If God is in everything doesn't that mean everything and everyone has a "spark of the divine"? I would not say everyone has a spark of divine. I am sorry I cant go deeper into the whole idea and reasoning and I will not and am not trying to convince any of you. I am very weary physically and I am not able to think to the best I can at the moment I ask you only pray for me. but here are some words for thought Zec 12:1 ¶ The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. all men get there spirit from God and when he dies it returns to God Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, Ecc 2:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Acts 17:25, 28 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; For in him we live, and move, and have our being; all men have their life in God and that life is from him Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. By himself all things are composed and are held together. 1Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, Edited February 20, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVBibleBeliever Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 I am not a student of language so I ask you guys for wisdom on this matter. What does ex nihilo mean? Does it mean "out of nothing". If so what is "nothing". Does nothing mean "lack of anything"? If so, why are we discussing what God made something out of? God bless, Larry Hi Larry what is that "ex nihilo"? is that Latin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beameup Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I was referring to the bracketed statement [large hybrids]. Where does this come from? The translators of the King James used the Septuagint. In the Septuigint, the Koine Greek word for Hebrew nephilim is gigantes, from which they got the English word giants. Edited February 20, 2014 by beameup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVBibleBeliever Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 Why did God not say that what he created on the second day was good (Gen 1:6-8)? But in Gen 31 it says "all is good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted February 20, 2014 Moderators Share Posted February 20, 2014 The translators of the King James used the Septuagint. In the Septuigint, the Koine Greek word for Hebrew nephilim is gigantes, from which they got the English word giants. Actually they used the Masoretic for the OT, but the NT, the original quotes by the writers of the scripture were, apparently, from the Septuagint, as it was the Greek version of the scriptuire at the time. And since they were writing in Greek, it made sense to use it. But the OT is Masoretic. And since we don't see the word 'giant' in the NT, its a non-issue. However, for what its worth, the word nephilim was translated giant. But what's the point? There's a good chance that everyone was a giant, compared to us today-if they lived longer, had greater oxygen in the air, they, like so many other animals, probably would have been much larger than we are today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVBibleBeliever Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 The translators of the King James used the Septuagint. In the Septuigint, the Koine Greek word for Hebrew nephilim is gigantes, from which they got the English word giants. I thought they used the Masoretic Text? If I am not mistaken it was Jerome that used the Septuagint to make his version the Latin Vulgate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ThePilgrim Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 Hi Larry what is that "ex nihilo"? is that Latin? "I am not a student of language so I ask you guys for wisdom on this matter." God bless, Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beameup Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) The Torah was carefully translated from the Hebrew to the Greek. The mistake is to assume that the rest of the Septuagint was likewise "carefully translated" by a large group of competent Hebrew scholars. As the project was added onto, the care and competency of translation diminished. This is why the translation of "nephilim" into the Koine Greek is so important. The King James translators had absolutely no clue as to the meaning of nephilim, and were forced to go to the LXX for insight. If you were raised to believe that Satan has done nothing "unusual" to God's creation, then you will likely retain that position. If one starts from a certain "position", then finding or even forcing scriptures to "fit" is the result. That is what the SDA, JW's, and others do. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God [bene ha'elohim] shouted for joy? Job 38:4a, 7 Edited February 20, 2014 by beameup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVBibleBeliever Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) If so, why protect it by a cherub with a flaming sword? I am not sure but are not a cherub and a cherubims two different Creatures? And it was not a cherubims with a flaming sword, it was cherubims, and a flaming sword. this sword had the ability to move in every direction Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Eze 10:7 And one cherub stretched forth his hand from between the cherubims unto the fire that was between the cherubims, and took thereof, and put it into the hands of him that was clothed with linen: who took it, and went out. 8 ¶ And there appeared in the cherubims the form of a man's hand under their wings. 9 And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was as the colour of a beryl stone. Eze 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle. Eze 10:14 And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle. Edited February 20, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVBibleBeliever Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 You are "half right", angels in heaven do not marry. Nowhere in scripture does it say that "angels cannot have children". Angels "that left their first estate" and came to earth clearly cohabited with women (daughters of adam). Sometimes we "assume". From Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2, we can see that these angels came to earth and cohabited, and thus are reserved for special judgement in Tartarus (inside the earth). The "Sethite" doctrine was cooked-up by the Augustinian Catholics. bene ha'elohim is consistent in the Hebrew Old Testament. Every instance of an angel in the Holy Bible they are spoken of as being males with no wings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AVBibleBeliever Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) So they hung out on a black, lightless, moonless, starless, plantless, animal-less rock? To what purpose? I already made my point on why Lucifer and his angels were on the earth. " It seems as though, at this time, Father, Son and Spirit will be together as one, just God, no more three Person Godhead, just God And what scripture verse do you have that says no more three person godhead? God will always be a trinity, these three that are one will always be for God never changeth. Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Edited February 20, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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