Any Guesses As To What...

[candlelight]

We are not told whether the coppersmith was a Jew or not.

He apparently was a resident of Ephesus who greatly opposed Paul.

Thank you, SFIC.  That would make sense as many people "opposed" Paul and stil do. 

[candlelight]

John 11:4 (Concerning Lazarus) When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of the Lord, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

 

James 5:14  Is any sick among you? let him call the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

Thanks, Bro K.  I just asked my mother in law, the other day, if I should ask my pastor and deacons, if I can be anointed with oil in Jesus' Holy Name.  I think I will do that.

[Anon]

Being prayed over for illness is ALWAYS good, but I have been told that the anointing of oil in that passage is in the context of someone who is sick because they sinned.   In that context, the prayer heals the sick AND forgives the sin (see entire passage).   However if the illness is simply a weakness in your body that you have, sometimes you just have to let God help you through it.  After all, our flesh is sinful and weak and the genetics are getting weaker, and the flaws are getting greater, in our flesh, so illness and different cancers and problems are just getting more widespread as we go along.

 

I hope you feel better!  My unsaved cousin has severe epilepsy and it has affected her entire life in a very negative way...very debilitating.  :-(

[Bro K]

Being prayed over for illness is ALWAYS good, but I have been told that the anointing of oil in that passage is in the context of someone who is sick because they sinned.   In that context, the prayer heals the sick AND forgives the sin (see entire passage).   However if the illness is simply a weakness in your body that you have, sometimes you just have to let God help you through it.  After all, our flesh is sinful and weak and the genetics are getting weaker, and the flaws are getting greater, in our flesh, so illness and different cancers and problems are just getting more widespread as we go along.

 

I hope you feel better!  My unsaved cousin has severe epilepsy and it has affected her entire life in a very negative way...very debilitating.  :-(

I should have gave Verse 13: If any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Afflicted and merry is physical attributes.

 

Vs 15 is where it mentions "having committed sins". However, this is dealt with "the prayer of faith" which is at the beginning of the verse.
 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Given the definition of the word "buffet," I would have to disagree with the theory that the "thorn in the flesh was eye problems.

Buffet is speaking of violence; i.e., striking with a fist, or it is speaking of insulting with words.

Nowhere does Scripture identify the act of buffeting as an eye problem.  One does not get eye problems from being insulted with words.  Now, one might get a black eye from being hit with a fist, I do not believe Paul was speaking of someone pummeling him. 

If someone was beating you to a pulp, do you think God would say, "My grace is sufficient, take you beating." 

I don't.

For this reason, I believe the thorn was someone who was verbally abusive toward Paul.   I can see God saying, "My grace is sufficient" in such a case.

[candlelight]

Being prayed over for illness is ALWAYS good, but I have been told that the anointing of oil in that passage is in the context of someone who is sick because they sinned.   In that context, the prayer heals the sick AND forgives the sin (see entire passage).   However if the illness is simply a weakness in your body that you have, sometimes you just have to let God help you through it.  After all, our flesh is sinful and weak and the genetics are getting weaker, and the flaws are getting greater, in our flesh, so illness and different cancers and problems are just getting more widespread as we go along.

 

I hope you feel better!  My unsaved cousin has severe epilepsy and it has affected her entire life in a very negative way...very debilitating.  :-(

Maybe, that is why my MIL didn't really say anything when I talked with her.  Epilepsy has been ongoing in my life.  Also, it is genetic, as my aunt suffered from it.  I will still ask to be prayed over.  I have been prayed over before, in my church, by my pastor and the deacons two times, before going in for hernia surgeries.  So true about illnesses, Kitagrl.

Thank you.  I will pray for your unsaved cousin.  Yes, it is very debilitating.  However, before I was saved, it was much worse.  My Epilepsy also brought me to salvation.  I can't imagine being unsaved and having it. 

[candlelight]

I should have gave Verse 13: If any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Afflicted and merry is physical attributes.

 

Vs 15 is where it mentions "having committed sins". However, this is dealt with "the prayer of faith" which is at the beginning of the verse.
 

Thanks, Bro K.  I didn't know that about those two words.  I will read that chapter for clarification.  Thanks, again:)

[candlelight]

Given the definition of the word "buffet," I would have to disagree with the theory that the "thorn in the flesh was eye problems.

Buffet is speaking of violence; i.e., striking with a fist, or it is speaking of insulting with words.

Nowhere does Scripture identify the act of buffeting as an eye problem.  One does not get eye problems from being insulted with words.  Now, one might get a black eye from being hit with a fist, I do not believe Paul was speaking of someone pummeling him. 

If someone was beating you to a pulp, do you think God would say, "My grace is sufficient, take you beating." 

I don't.

For this reason, I believe the thorn was someone who was verbally abusive toward Paul.   I can see God saying, "My grace is sufficient" in such a case.

 I was thinking of that word and it's meaning before going to bed, SFIC. 

I don't think God would say that to Paul, either. 

I think your explantion of Alexander is a good one, SFIC.  Thank you for sharing and also breaking down the words for me. 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

As I said, it may not be Alexander.  It may be someone else.  I do believe it is someone.

"Messenger" is also a clue that it is a person.

"Messenger" is the Greek word "aggelos."  It is always translated as -

1. a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God

Always speaking of a physical being rather than a illness.

[candlelight]

Thanks, SFIC! 

[Anon]

I believe the eye problem was the messenger from satan to buffet him.   It is said to have been painful.   Personification is not an unheard of thing in Scripture.

 

Anyway, Paul spoke plainly out against people who did him wrong.   This seemed to be a more personal, more internal struggle.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Aggelos was consistently translated as an entity throughout the New Testament. Makes no sense to say it is an illness in this one verse.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Even if we look at the word "messenger" in the New Testament, we find that it is only used five times.

Matthew 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Mark 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Luke 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Philippians 2:25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants.

It is consistently mentioned as a person in four of those verses.  Why would it be any different in the other? 

Aggelos, used 186 times in 181 verses.  consistently an entity in 185 instances of its use but one?  I can't buy it.

[Anon]

Well one of the phrases is to be taken non- literally.....either the thorn in the flesh, or the messenger.    You cannot take both literally, unless you believe he is praying for a demon to stop poking him with a thorn.....

[candlelight]

I believe the eye problem was the messenger from satan to buffet him.   It is said to have been painful.   Personification is not an unheard of thing in Scripture.

 

Anyway, Paul spoke plainly out against people who did him wrong.   This seemed to be a more personal, more internal struggle.

With that in mind, we go back to this verse... Scripture says, "For this thing I besought the Lord Thrice, that it might depart from me."

He refers to it as this "thing."